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Trying to become pro

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=5029

Page 6 of 13

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:01 pm
by speedchase
I have to say that the tsumego are significantly easier than described. the first I got in under 30 seconds, the second in under a minute, although the third I could not solve without looking at the solution. I think my reading is truthfully slightly above par for an 8kyu, but that being said I still believe they are easier than stated.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:20 pm
by tchan001
If you want to try a really interesting tsumego, this is one of my favorites. Very well constructed and quite difficult.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:55 pm
by Josh Hatch
speedchase wrote:I have to say that the tsumego are significantly easier than described. the first I got in under 30 seconds, the second in under a minute, although the third I could not solve without looking at the solution. I think my reading is truthfully slightly above par for an 8kyu, but that being said I still believe they are easier than stated.

They probably are. I don't know how they came up with the ranks for the problems, they're also based on Japanese ranks so there could be some discrepency there.

Here's another problem. I'm not sure how difficult this one is supposed to be, this book doesn't give ratings for the problems. I did this one yesterday though and got it right, I only got 1 out of 3 problems in this section of the book right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c black to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X |
$$ . . . O O O O O X |
$$ . . . O X . X X O |
$$ . O . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

I'm going to stop posting problems in this thread after this as it's not the purpose of the thread. We can do more tsumego in the Study Group forum though if anyone wants to.

@Tchan- I've seen other problems that use the same tesuji as your problem before but it took me a while to find it the first time.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:14 pm
by Leyleth
tchan001 wrote:If you want to try a really interesting tsumego, this is one of my favorites. Very well constructed and quite difficult.


Nice problem.
13-19
makes ko. Will look at it more deeply tomorrow. No, wait... not a ko...

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:32 pm
by lovely
Josh Hatch wrote:Why don't you two play a game and settle your argument that way?

Also Leyleth, here's a few problems that are rated for 2k since you say play a 2d at 3 stones at your club:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c At a glance - 2k
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . X X O O O O X X |
$$ . . . . O . O O X |
$$ . . X . O O X X . |
$$ . . . X X X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c 1 minute - 2k
$$ -------------------
$$ . . O . . . O . . |
$$ . O X . X . X O . |
$$ . O X . X . X O . |
$$ . O O X X X O . . |
$$ . . . O O O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c 3 minutes - 2k
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . O . O . |
$$ . . X X O . X X X |
$$ . . X O O O O O O |
$$ . . X X X X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

All three problems are black to play and from 初段合格の死活150題.


These are 2k problems? Seems a lot easier than that.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:08 am
by SoDesuNe
tchan001 wrote:If you want to try a really interesting tsumego, this is one of my favorites. Very well constructed and quite difficult.


I really want it to work that way : D
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O a |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X e |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O d 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 'a' should capture. Black can't play at :b9: himself because after Black :w8: he can't give Atari at T14 and when Black starts a capturing race with S11 he loses by one move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 2 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 8 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 4 6 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 'b' or 'c': Black loses the two stones (second eye for White).
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O 5 O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 4 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 'd': White captures those two stones as well. DOES NOT WORK: Black play :b4: at :w5: !
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O 7 O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 2 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


EDIT:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 'd'1: I hope with :w7: White catches the three Black stones. Need to go now ^^ Will check later!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 4 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X W 2 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 6 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 'e': White captures those stones as well.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 4 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 3 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 6 8 9 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c black to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X |
$$ . . . O O O O O X |
$$ . . . O X . X X O |
$$ . O . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c black to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X |
$$ . . . O O O O O X |
$$ . . . O X . X X O |
$$ . O . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . 1 . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]


I hope this move works, I'm really bad with such corner positions : /

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:28 am
by tchan001
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

How would you answer this reply?

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:55 am
by SoDesuNe
tchan001 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

How would you answer this reply?


Tricky, tricky! Here I looked at five different responses and missed the most difficult one ^^
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 4 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 3 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd say it has to go like this and now Black has to defend the cut at 'a', otherwise White can capture those three stones again.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X . . X |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 2 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . 4 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Forced?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X . . X |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X O X 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 3 O 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For White unfavourable M-m-m-monster Ko? Or just wrong first move? =D



post scriptum:
Ko is not that unfavourable because White has bunch of local Ko threats.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:22 am
by tchan001
SoDesuNe, look inside
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

How about this?


Maybe Josh would care to share his findings with us
Josh Hatch wrote:@Tchan- I've seen other problems that use the same tesuji as your problem before but it took me a while to find it the first time.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:02 am
by SoDesuNe
tchan001 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

How about this?


I just found several mistakes in my earlier tries, so I guess my move does not work.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:38 am
by SoDesuNe
Okay, new try =) Forcing moves first!

But it's still just a Ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w1: and :w3: seem to be totally forcing, Black can only answer with :b2: and :b4: .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O a |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And now we smash :w1: on the board, threatening 'a' and 'b'!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 2 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 4 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is the strongest response Black has. But White has too many local threats for the size of the Ko, it seems.
Any other move by Black lets White live unconditionally, I think.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:25 am
by tchan001
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O 5 O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 4 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe something like this?

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:27 am
by SoDesuNe
tchan001 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O 5 O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 4 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe something like this?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O O |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now Black can't connect, so White has still his second eye, I think.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:28 am
by Josh Hatch
SoDesuNe wrote:Okay, new try =) Forcing moves first!

But it's still just a Ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w1: and :w3: seem to be totally forcing, Black can only answer with :b2: and :b4: .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O a |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And now we smash :w1: on the board, threatening 'a' and 'b'!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 2 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X 4 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is the strongest response Black has. But White has too many local threats for the size of the Ko, it seems.
Any other move by Black lets White live unconditionally, I think.

That was the solution I had.

There's a similar problem in the Lee Changho Life and Death series, problem 17 in book 5. It's a few moves further along than the problem Tchan posted.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Rotated to match Tchan's problem
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


tchan001 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X X X . O X O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . O 5 O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X O . O X O 4 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe something like this?

White can play m19 next and will be able to live.

Re: Trying to become pro

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:55 am
by RBerenguel
I'm happy I got the first 2 moves and the idea almost right then (I didn't post any answer, but was checking ;) )
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 6 of 13

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