Life In 19x19

they both appears to be same reading strength. why are they playing handy?

Could you elaborate on your thoughts regarding this move?

This is a pass, isn't it?

Marcus wrote:Observers only:
This is a pass, isn't it?

I think the idea is to remove aji from that one white stone, but it seems like black should either extend from the wall properly, or take a big point like closing a corner.

Marcus wrote:This is a pass, isn't it?

is not a pass, but either B(a) or B(b) is probably better:

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[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

The clamp = allows W the powerful turn of :

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[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O B . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

This move feels the largest because it splits blacks stones and black now has weaknesses to fix on the bottom and left side

I want to strengthen the left side
and with i think this and the black string of stones to the left will survive (or at least when i don't defend anymore the left stones, i will get compensation: a wall starting with ).

Black has big moyos everywhere, the right side feels bigger than the top so ill go there, and i am approaching high instead of low because i feel access to the center is important

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[go]$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , 1 . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i think, the double approach is not good for me.

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[go]$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , 1 . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

the string of stones on the left are too weak, no good wall.

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[go]$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

to response with just backing off is too soft, white simply gains a base. my string of left stones are still too weak and would be become even weaker.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this will be tricky, but the new white stone is getting weaker. too tired to look through all the variations. this is probably not a good habit.

lesenv wrote:

$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

to response with just backing off is too soft, white simply gains a base. my string of left stones are still too weak and would be become even weaker.

$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

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[go]$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this will be tricky, but the new white stone is getting weaker. too tired to look through all the variations. this is probably not a good habit.]

The most common answer to the high approach is the one space jump. White can't easily build a base or take the corner with it, so a tighter defense like the knight's move above is inefficient and doesn't put as much pressure on the approaching stone. The most common variation leads to white having an open skirt and black securing the corner, which would be perfectly fine here, I think. The wall on the left is clearly much stronger than white's lone stone, and even with an extension, white's original high approach leaves white without a terribly solid base in a sea of black influence.

Honestly, I think a pincer, though not necessarily the two space high pincer that was suggested by the poster, was a reasonable idea, since black has backup on both sides. Black could safely just come out with a diagonal move if white makes a double approach, and leave white with two weak white groups split by a weakish black group.

The second diagram, however has a nasty and often persistent error. When you attach to a stone, you are inviting that stone to strengthen itself. If white responds with an extension or hane, as he well should, the stone black attached to becomes stronger, and is stronger than the stone that attached to it. Contact moves generally should only be used for defense against a stone that is already strong, so that the additional strength doesn't help the opponent much. There is also a case for using them to make the opponent heavy, but this is much less frequent and one needs to have a plan to follow up with.

I think this is the only move, id be ok with a simple variation such as shown below.

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[go]$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . 4 O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 6 . . 2 1 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hm, i want to see how he'll settle this group of his. i hope if he lives (and i expect him to live), i'll gain more influence. i don't know if my left stones have to live or they can be given up for the center in exchange.

Cant afford to get cut here

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[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Has anyone considered this attachment? Considering White's current territory versus Black's, it would be easy to simply build the right side into a huge territory. The reason I'm thinking this is that while I don't like Black's wall in the lower left, it can be put to use by getting in the way of White's territorial prospects after the resolution. At any rate Black should end up with greater gain than White without needing to fight.

Then, considering Black has a nice framework going in the upper left and White has zero influence, making miai of taking a chunk of the side or the corner should clinch the game.

Even if this doesn't work out somehow, Black should mostly control the center at this point. Barring a series of serious mistakes I don't see how White could steal the game if is followed up properly. Again, Black mostly has to take care of his ungainly wall in the lower left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm44 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . 4 O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 5 . . 2 1 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

first i chose here: i get to defend the left stones and attack white (or at least steal the base). white will probably live in the middle. i'm not sure if it was better to let him live inside (on the side), but i don't know where to play instead, so i chose to live at the side.
but a second thought occured: use the influence! then i will let him live or when he struggles against me, i'll build my territory automatically.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 1 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . X 2 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O X . . , . . O O . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]