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39. Magicwand (3d) vs. Kirby (1d)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=722

Page 6 of 16

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:24 am
by Kirby
Bill Spight wrote:...

To Kirby:

I gather that you are about KGS shodan? Then why are you taking 4 stones from Magicwand?

When I was a up and coming bridge player, I took to heart something that Terence Reese wrote in Bridge for Tournament Players: "The man who plays up to himself is hard to beat." I pass that thought on to you. :)

Magicwand may be overconfident. But that is not just bluster. He is a seasoned veteran. He tested himself, over and over again, against the best players that he could play against. Now when he plays, he is the man to beat. :)


So your advice to me is to "play up to myself"?

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:27 am
by Violence
Kirby:

Confidence is worth 2 stones. I don't sense confidence in your moves, just confusion. I think you are too easily psychologically attacked.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:49 am
by hoohoo
To Kirby

In comparison to magicwand your moves are not the least bit hungry.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:51 am
by Magicwand
to observers:
4 stone is very big handycap.. for people who want to give more handycap to others...
if you look at my game..i didnt have any group that was seriously attacked by black.
it's partly Kirby's fault. but...when i have 1 stone...i dont move them and use it as aji.
make sure my group is not under attack... which means i have 2 ways to run. (also means it is thick)
i can tenuki and live..but getting attacked wont be pretty. but i seen many sdk's tenuki because he wont be captured.
make sure to play without weakness and do not get attacked.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:02 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Normally, I would want to pincer white. The first thought is a low tight pincer. However, I can easily be attacked with the move that Magicwand seems to do against only me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . B B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I might be able to do something with the pincer stone, but it seems like the marked black stones could get a lot weaker.

I thought of a different approach, but I'm not sure I like this way, either:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It seems like white has good potential to do something effective, and :b1:, above, doesn't do a ton.

I thought about pressing:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . a . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but it doesn't gain me much because white can jump in at "a". I'm just giving white free territory.

The low move is OK, but I don't really feel great about it since I don't have support on top, and I wouldn't like :w2: below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something high and loose for a pincer could also work, but it is somewhat disconnected from my group in the bottom right, which isn't super strong:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . x , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . x x . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . x . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I decided to just defend the corner. I first thought of the small knight's enclosure, but...:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A large knight's enclosure will induce white to invade the 3-3, which I like fine since it weakens the right side.

Of course, black can still play as above, but I get more territory with the large knight's enclosure.

Plus, I can still try to invade later if I want to.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:03 pm
by Kirby
hoohoo wrote:To Kirby

In comparison to magicwand your moves are not the least bit hungry.


Sounds funny, so I liked your comment, but I'm not so sure what this means.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:03 pm
by k1ndofblue
Bill Spight wrote:I have a foot in both camps. I want Kirby to win, and I think that Kirby will win if he plays up to himself. :) At the same time, I am a fan of Magicwand. :)


Me too!!!

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:06 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . W . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i will make sure his group become heavy before the foreplay of setting up for attack.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:09 pm
by Kirby
What does "play up to yourself" mean?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . B O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought for a bit about responding in a different way to the peep, but none seemed beneficial. Here are the options that I considered:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . a . . W d . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X c . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but all of them seemed silly compared to simply connecting. I should just connect this peep.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:11 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . W . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:12 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . B O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have no choice but to connect.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:14 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , W . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i changed my mind. no foreplay and gofor attack now. i might lose the rhythm and flow.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:19 pm
by dfan
I feel like something has gone wrong for Black. He started with a group between two White groups in a running battle, which should be a great position to be in from a sector-line standpoint:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but somehow that group ended up being the weakest of the three.

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:19 pm
by daniel_the_smith
The peeps Magicwand just played seem ok. Can someone enumerate the reasons why they're not so bad? Is it because the white stick is two spaces away?

Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:21 pm
by hoohoo
To kirby
It means that magicwand want to utterly destroy you. While you are contempt with just not loosing.
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