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44. Violence (?d) vs. Magicwand (3d)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=732

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Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:42 pm
by hyperpape
I appreciate how I can come back to this game, look at the time of the last post, think that it's probably something I've already read, only to find that > 10 moves have gone by.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:47 pm
by Violence
hyperpape:
Oh wait, you didn't ask a question. I have thread subscription on, so it emails me whenever someone posts here. My knee jerk reaction to seeing your post was to hit post reply and type your name, then hit the hide button.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:48 pm
by Kirby
Violence:
How do you play so confidently? ;)

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:55 pm
by Harleqin
I would have played R7 and double hane without thinking much, and I believe that it is better than the looser keima.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:58 pm
by Tryphon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White didn't consider this move (sorry to be late, I come from work and just notice this malkovich game), so it's bad.

Though :
- it's sente
- it gives Black bad shape

Why is it bad then ?

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:01 pm
by Violence
Kirby:
Problems and experience build confidence and make you a better player. As you root yourself in the fundamentals and rely on your own abilities, you get a certain sense of how the game will progress if you play somewhere. It's important in a game to keep your confidence up and keep your sense of the game optimistic. I think I'm slightly behind right now, but I have a lot of aji and a lot of chances left to come right back into the game. I imagine Magicwand is also quite confident of his victory. It's this optimism that guides positive moves and more variation, I feel.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:04 pm
by Magicwand
:roll: :roll: :roll: stephaniekim

edit: my 4years old daughter posted above while i was sleeping.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:11 pm
by Bill Spight
Tryphon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White didn't consider this move (sorry to be late, I come from work and just notice this malkovich game), so it's bad.

Though :
- it's sente
- it gives Black bad shape

Why is it bad then ?


It is aji keshi. Once Black has connected, other threats, such as atari on one of the other stones, disappear.

It loses a ko threat.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:12 pm
by Harleqin
Tryphon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White didn't consider this move (sorry to be late, I come from work and just notice this malkovich game), so it's bad.

Though :
- it's sente
- it gives Black bad shape

Why is it bad then ?


Because :b2: is worth more than :w1:. This has a lot to do with the fact that :w1: is worth about zero points, but also, Black now can never face damezumari or atari involving G6 or F7. For example, White's attacking move at G8 has lost some of its vigour because of this.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:36 pm
by Tryphon
Thanks for both your answers.

It's really difficult to distinguish good forcing moves and bad ones :)
I'll hunt oher examples in the game :)

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:43 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i must've been drunk. my hanne is ok to play. that was good sleep i had...

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:24 pm
by Magicwand
something like below.. i would have about 15 point lead at least. (guesstimation)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O 4 7 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:00 pm
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote::roll: :roll: :roll: stephaniekim

edit: my 4years old daughter posted above while i was sleeping.



I thought that it was the alcohol...

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:12 am
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The place to fight is here.

Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:58 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X B . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
at first i was afraid he might play as such.
later i read again..he has nothing.
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