[go]$$Bcm71 B: 1 capture $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . . X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X 5 . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I didn't do a lot of analysis, but this seems better than trying to save the stone. My 3 black stones will come under attack. It may be best to sacrifice them and focus on consolidating the right side.
Odds of winning: 40%
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:51 pm
by DJLLAP
$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . 6 X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X 5 . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . 6 X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X 5 . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think it's best to let those stones go and look at the big picture. I may get something out of them later.
Odds of winning: 41%
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:16 pm
by The Intrepid
@emeraldemon
emeraldemon wrote:Odds of winning: 41%
Is that Fuego's evaluation of the position or a reflection of the price you've had to pay for serving as Fuego's conduit in games on this site? Also, are there error bars associated with this number?
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:09 am
by emeraldemon
@ The Intrepid
That number is just my instinct. (I think consulting Fuego would probably be cheating.) When I did those Fuego malkovich games I thought it was fun watching the estimation go up and down after different moves, so I thought I would try to guess my own chances of winning. I have no idea what the error bars are, but they're probably fairly large!
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:01 pm
by skydyr
emeraldemon wrote:
$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . 6 X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X 5 . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . 6 X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X 5 . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think it's best to let those stones go and look at the big picture. I may get something out of them later.
Odds of winning: 41%
Isn't it important to save those stones because they are separating two weak white groups?
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:59 pm
by The Intrepid
I also think these cutting stones are important. Thankfully, it looks like Black has time to change his mind about sacrificing them, because I don't think these stones can be captured, yet ... At least I don't see a way to do it.
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:49 am
by skydyr
The Intrepid wrote:I also think these cutting stones are important. Thankfully, it looks like Black has time to change his mind about sacrificing them, because I don't think these stones can be captured, yet ... At least I don't see a way to do it.
I agree that they can't be easily captured right away, but my instinct is that by letting white take the initiative there, white can get a lot of sente plays against them to strengthen his own groups.
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:07 am
by DJLLAP
$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 8 . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 8 . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Thoughts: First, White's move doesn't completely capture the black stones, but I probably don't want to get chased.
Overall territory balance: White's lower-left corner is slightly larger than black's lower right corner, but not a lot: 4-5 points. The captures give white a little bit in the center, but most of our points are coming from the top and sides.
White has a fairly solid 30 point side + upper corner. I have a much looser framework, but one that stretches over a much larger area. Three basic ideas occur to me:
$$Bcm79 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm79 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I feel like "a" is the best move for me here, because it makes territory and prevents white from expanding. I don't like the way the board looks if white gets "a".
$$Bcm79 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm79 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . 2 . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think this is by far the largest move on the board. It captures the cutting stones turning two weak groups into one strong group. Now I think invading my side and securing his top right corner are miai.
Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:59 am
by emeraldemon
Sorry for taking so long, real life intruded.
$$Bcm80 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm80 B: 2 captures $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Responding on the side is small. I want to make fill his moyo full of invasions. This move scoops out a lot of potential territory from black, and keeps my corner safe.
Also, are there error bars associated with this number?