Re: EGF and Fischer
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:07 pm
A disadvantage of Bronstein is certainly the possibly more varying duration of games during a tournament round, resulting in somewhat more time required to finish a round.
One recurring statement was that a player might be upset to have to "lose" spilled time in Bronstein.
About this however, I think that if you have for example a 20s Bronstein period, the following might rather apply:
-such moves (squeeze, ko threat, standard sequences) should actually affect both players nearly equally, since they are "sequences" after all, so both will in the same boat, therefore no loss in comparison between the players.
-finishing thinking about one situation and then -still within the same 20s delay- switching to think about a completely different situation while keeping the first one in mind might not be practical.
Therefore rather than forcing anyone to think about more stuff in order to make use of his time, Bronstein can instead allow the players to relax for a moment, since the mental effort might be of little payoff compared to calming down instead. This is somewhat leading to next point:
Some things that I perceive as disadvantageous about Fisher:
-if bonus time is quite low, eg < +15s, the faster you move your arm the more time you can get out of it. Better start doing pushups so you can save 1s on each move in the next tournament. Ok I'm not completely serious here, but it's annoying that you have to go for the clock button at max speed on every move you make.
-Fisher forces a much larger scale active time management by each player.
It is annoying to have to consider and estimate on each move if it might not be worth spending ten, five or even one more second so you may save it up. This might shift the game of Go too much towards raising mental effort for active time management:
In Fisher, you cannot simply think "if I keep these 15 minutes time reserve I have left I should be able to think through situation X that might come up later" but instead you'll need to be more like "I used up 20 minutes so far, and probably the game will last about 100 more moves where probably 20 will be end-game, then that means I shouldnt take more than 8 seconds per move for this sequence so i will have anough time to handle situation X which will probably come up over there later.".
Further, it was mentioned that absolute time is pretty bad in tournament as it allows to play nonsense moves to make the opponent suffer a time loss. However, this may also (although on a much lesser scale) surface with Fisher time, IF we assume that in fisher time the bonus time on each move is [considerably] small, THEN Fisher time allows your opponent to play nonsense moves to drive you into a corner if he picks his timing to do so right when you're in a Fisher 'time valley' ie have spent most of your time reserve for handling a critical situation that had just been finished on the board and are planning to accumulate it again since usually only basic moves would follow for a while now. Of course by far not as bad as Hour Glass time or Absolute time though, but still different from Bronstein where this isn't an issue.
Overall: Large bonus fisher time settings, like +20 seconds for example, seem to me to avoid disadvantages to Bronstein listed above quite effectively, and at the same time give us the full spectrum of tournament time management advantages Fisher time offers, so i'd vote for Fisher if bonus time is, say, at least +15s, otherwise for Bronstein - just my personal taste.
About most of 'our classical' time modi: Both Bronstein and Fisher are certainly superior by far to absolute time, canadian byoyomi and japanese byoyomi. Personally, im especially taken back by both byo-yomi variants about emphasizing the opening as the place to spend thinking time at, since base time will run out anyway, even if a move is made without much thinking. not that i dont like to think during the opening, but still i'd like more control there.
Also, if you want to play a really relaxed game of Go in a pub, without the emphasis on tournament or competition for prizes, Bronstein time will nicely keep away the need to keep spending mental ressources on time management and to frantically grab for the clock.
One recurring statement was that a player might be upset to have to "lose" spilled time in Bronstein.
About this however, I think that if you have for example a 20s Bronstein period, the following might rather apply:
-such moves (squeeze, ko threat, standard sequences) should actually affect both players nearly equally, since they are "sequences" after all, so both will in the same boat, therefore no loss in comparison between the players.
-finishing thinking about one situation and then -still within the same 20s delay- switching to think about a completely different situation while keeping the first one in mind might not be practical.
Therefore rather than forcing anyone to think about more stuff in order to make use of his time, Bronstein can instead allow the players to relax for a moment, since the mental effort might be of little payoff compared to calming down instead. This is somewhat leading to next point:
Some things that I perceive as disadvantageous about Fisher:
-if bonus time is quite low, eg < +15s, the faster you move your arm the more time you can get out of it. Better start doing pushups so you can save 1s on each move in the next tournament. Ok I'm not completely serious here, but it's annoying that you have to go for the clock button at max speed on every move you make.
-Fisher forces a much larger scale active time management by each player.
It is annoying to have to consider and estimate on each move if it might not be worth spending ten, five or even one more second so you may save it up. This might shift the game of Go too much towards raising mental effort for active time management:
In Fisher, you cannot simply think "if I keep these 15 minutes time reserve I have left I should be able to think through situation X that might come up later" but instead you'll need to be more like "I used up 20 minutes so far, and probably the game will last about 100 more moves where probably 20 will be end-game, then that means I shouldnt take more than 8 seconds per move for this sequence so i will have anough time to handle situation X which will probably come up over there later.".
Further, it was mentioned that absolute time is pretty bad in tournament as it allows to play nonsense moves to make the opponent suffer a time loss. However, this may also (although on a much lesser scale) surface with Fisher time, IF we assume that in fisher time the bonus time on each move is [considerably] small, THEN Fisher time allows your opponent to play nonsense moves to drive you into a corner if he picks his timing to do so right when you're in a Fisher 'time valley' ie have spent most of your time reserve for handling a critical situation that had just been finished on the board and are planning to accumulate it again since usually only basic moves would follow for a while now. Of course by far not as bad as Hour Glass time or Absolute time though, but still different from Bronstein where this isn't an issue.
Overall: Large bonus fisher time settings, like +20 seconds for example, seem to me to avoid disadvantages to Bronstein listed above quite effectively, and at the same time give us the full spectrum of tournament time management advantages Fisher time offers, so i'd vote for Fisher if bonus time is, say, at least +15s, otherwise for Bronstein - just my personal taste.
About most of 'our classical' time modi: Both Bronstein and Fisher are certainly superior by far to absolute time, canadian byoyomi and japanese byoyomi. Personally, im especially taken back by both byo-yomi variants about emphasizing the opening as the place to spend thinking time at, since base time will run out anyway, even if a move is made without much thinking. not that i dont like to think during the opening, but still i'd like more control there.
Also, if you want to play a really relaxed game of Go in a pub, without the emphasis on tournament or competition for prizes, Bronstein time will nicely keep away the need to keep spending mental ressources on time management and to frantically grab for the clock.