Sevis
Lives with ko
Posts: 155 Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:14 amRank: KGS 6 kyuGD Posts: 0KGS: SevisLocation: The NetherlandsHas thanked: 11 times
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by Sevis Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:34 pm
$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:44 pm
$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Central facing influence is more useful to me than edge points right now, so going to make shape:
$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
EdLee
Honinbo
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by EdLee Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:48 pm
@topazg:
topazg wrote: I still think you're too thin with that, some of your diagrams
Yes, there are many variations and B must play correctly, but B should be fine.
topazg wrote: but as the moves you've proposed don't actually kill, the direction of Black's resulting position is quite important.
B does not need to kill; only to close W. And B H8 is correct direction.
Back to the game.
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:51 pm
Spoiler:
If I was Black, I'd be tempted to play:
$$Wcm31 "a" and "b" sort of miai?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 "a" and "b" sort of miai?
EdLee
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by EdLee Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:00 pm
Spoiler.
is loose (re: post #75):
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:01 pm
EdLee wrote: @topazg:
topazg wrote: I still think you're too thin with that, some of your diagrams
Yes, there are many variations and B must play correctly, but B should be fine.
topazg wrote: but as the moves you've proposed don't actually kill, the direction of Black's resulting position is quite important.
B does not need to kill; only to close W. And B H8 is correct direction.
Back to the game.
@Ed:
Sevis
Lives with ko
Posts: 155 Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:14 amRank: KGS 6 kyuGD Posts: 0KGS: SevisLocation: The NetherlandsHas thanked: 11 times
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by Sevis Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:03 pm
EdLee
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by EdLee Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:24 pm
@topazg (open after
):
topazg wrote: $$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BWhen you state that Black has a big corner, I'm guessing you overlooked the above continuation,
I did not overlook
to
, which is bad habit:
(1) aji keshi: for a very few points, W fixes all of B's bad aji here and makes B super strong;
kills 2 ko threats, and the W (c) clamp is no longer sente, etc.
(2) After
, W is
still not alive (e.g., needs
, etc. so W gets gote).
topazg wrote: is most definitely less stable,
As we already discussed,
is fine.
Back to the game.
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:29 pm
EdLee
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by EdLee Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:34 pm
@topazg:
topazg wrote: If you say so. We can agree to disagree then
When W jumps to
directly, I moved
down from (a).
The double hane variation was when B has an extra stone at (b), so B (a) was OK (not thin
):
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
EdLee
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by EdLee Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:37 pm
@topazg:
topazg wrote: You have very definitive opinions for a 4k.
Let the stones do the talking.
I am super slow;
I drop 2-3 stones at "mickey mouse" tournament time controls.
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:59 pm
EdLee wrote: @topazg:
topazg wrote: You have very definitive opinions for a 4k.
Let the stones do the talking.
I am super slow;
I drop 2-3 stones at "mickey mouse" tournament time controls.
That still makes 1-2k ... I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just very aware that even as a dan player, my precision in variations is really spectacular poor compared to professional play. I have spotted a number of things on your variations that you seem to have missed, and disagree with your conclusions on some others (though going through to the nth iteration with further disagreements on here seems fruitless outside of the game in question), and I'm sure a high dan would do the same to me, and a pro would do the same to them.
It seems only appropriate to have some humility with ideas and variations, and your constant "sorry, you're wrong and I'm right, and this is why" is kind of getting to me. Perhaps I shouldn't let it, but particularly in an educational context, I don't see false certainty as particularly constructive. It's something I've always admired about Bill, who not only puts forward really good variations and ideas, but does it in an impressively humble manner for someone so strong.
EDIT: Having calmed down a bit, I also want to stress that I do value your thoughts, ideas, and variations. Even when I disagree, it's really good having as much input as possible
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 amRank: Wbaduk 7DGD Posts: 0KGS: magicwandTygem: magicwandWbaduk: rlatkfkdDGS: magicwandOGS: magicwandLocation: Mechanicsburg, PAHas thanked: 62 times Been thanked: 504 times
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by Magicwand Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:18 pm
topazg:
appears to be correct. your knight move is completely wrong. it is like.."exit is this way. please go out and save yourself" move.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
"The more we think we know about Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:29 pm
@magicwand:
I apologise, I obviously wasn't very clear. I wasn't suggesting the knight's move as the way that Black should play, just that it is a more common shape, and that I believe the alternative suggested by Ed to be too thin. For what it is worth, my reading was:
$$Bc Black's walls seem too close to me
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Black's walls seem too close to me$$Bc White seems ok here as well?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc White seems ok here as well?$$Bc White seems ok here as well?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc White seems ok here as well?
I couldn't find anything that great for
on the other side either:
$$Bc White seems ok here as well?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc White seems ok here as well?
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 amRank: Wbaduk 7DGD Posts: 0KGS: magicwandTygem: magicwandWbaduk: rlatkfkdDGS: magicwandOGS: magicwandLocation: Mechanicsburg, PAHas thanked: 62 times Been thanked: 504 times
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by Magicwand Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:41 pm
toapzg:
in my opinion your reading is limited to cutting.
i can think of many different way to answer
that is better than your variation and is good for black.
i am not going to say Ed's move is correct but it appears to be correct.
imo it is not thin. it is very solid (in different persepective).
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
"The more we think we know about Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
is loose (re: post #75):
):
to 
, which is bad habit:
, etc. so W gets gote).
is most definitely less stable,
down from (a).
appears to be correct. your knight move is completely wrong. it is like.."exit is this way. please go out and save yourself" move.
on the other side either:
that is better than your variation and is good for black.