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Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:51 am
by illluck
Before triggering that, isn't "a" a simultaneous capture?

Edit: nvm, you mentioned 3 stones XD.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . 2 X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Yeah, definitely some strange shape here.

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:46 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | 3 2 X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Fascinating game. How am I trying to prevent you from getting two eyes already :S

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:14 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . 5 X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | 3 2 X 4 0 . . . X X . |
$$ | 7 6 O . 9 8 . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Good grief, this game is silly. Don't play this line if you don't want to, I'm just speculating... ;)

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:10 am
by topazg
Some thoughts for observers only for now:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 3 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . 4 O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 6 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . + O 5 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Alive in sente??? Really???

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:43 am
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
When I was reading, I realized that the below is actually a cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | 3 2 X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . 6 4 5 + . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . 8 X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
With 97 being the capture.

Though, if black answers my 95 with 96 in the diagram, I think I probably have a way to live even without this interesting cut shape.

Edit:
Though, the above cut removes one possible resistance from black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X 5 . . . . X X . |
$$ | 7 6 O 8 0 4 9 a . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Black captures at "a" and then I can use that weird cut.

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:26 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X 7 . . . . X X . |
$$ | . 6 O 5 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Bah.... I'm smelling funny things here.

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:28 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | 8 O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Nice sense of smell - feel free to read the hidden comments.

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:31 pm
by topazg
Aha, I knew there was something like that. Mostly because of my reading on how I think I might live here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | 8 O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . 9 |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:34 pm
by illluck
Uh-oh, I obviously have a worse sense of smell because I can't see it XD
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | 8 O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O . O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:39 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 1 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
S'ok, this is where I prove to be wrong no doubt :D

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:48 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 1 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O 2 . O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
I feel so lost...

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:16 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 1 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O 2 . O 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
That was a blunder wasn't it?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :w2: just below :w4:
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 4 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . + O 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
This seemed best for both?

As it is, this looks a lot harder for White:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :w4: to the right of :w2:
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | . O O O + O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 2 + . 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:18 pm
by illluck
Ah, that simutaneous capture XDDDDD

I resign, thank you for the game :) I admit that my initial impressions were off - the variant is quite interesting, though confusing.

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:27 pm
by MarkSteere
That was an awesome spectacle to behold! Thanks for the unexpected treat, guys. Wandering around my studio playing the sax, and watching two excellent Go players test out Redstone. It doesn't get any better :)

Re: Red, a Go variant

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:41 pm
by topazg
And Mark, I want to eat both my words and my hat, that was fun, deep and interesting!

The endgame could get tedious when you start filling out all your eyes, but with skill you'll know when you've won and lost and be happy to resign, and besides, Go is tedious when your opponent starts playing in your territory when each stone is clearly dead.

So, anyone else for a game?