Life In 19x19

John Fairbairn wrote:One is a friend who studied taiji, at enormous expense, with a Chinese grandmaster. After months of assiduous effort and constant repetition he was admonished by the master: "You wave hands in air. Very pretty. But not taiji." Since the master's English was very limited it was pointless asking what he meant. But my friend is stubborn and he went away and examined everything he was doing. Months later he said he suddenly "got" taiji. He went back to the master and demonstrated his form again. The master looked, nodded and said simply, "Now you go away and practise." Several years later, my friend is now a successful teacher, over 80 but looking under 60. This is using the teacher as a signpost, and not as the map, signpost, and means of conveyance all rolled into one.

Bantari wrote:Would these few months be saved if the teacher simply *explained* what the student was doing wrong,

Bill Spight wrote:I still occasionally do the Heaven part of the form, and lately I'll do some one legged postures and kicks.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to play and kill by standing on one leg
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X X . . . .
$$ | . . . O X . . . .
$$ | . . . O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | . X . X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Knotwilg wrote:@Bantari: maybe we have been discussing on parallel tracks. When I talk about "stone counting on small boards" it is obviously meant to introduce the rules in an interactive way. As soon as the newcomer becomes a serious student, then obviously 19x19 should be the size and probably already for some time.

Also, the emphasis has been too much on the alleged horrible teachers I had or witnessed. I really think a bad system breeds bad teaching, with the teachers being blissfully unaware of this. My account of it may have been too harsh. In any case I don't think any newcomer should be subjected to a sermon of wisdom for the sake of the teacher's feeling good.

That attitude extends well into the approach of serious students though. A student can spend hours of practice with 10 minutes of good advice. There's no point in drowning them in more advice.

@All: having said that, my original post advocated more, not less and so it may look as if I advocate stronger teachership. On one hand, yes, I'd like to see a few more dojos which are well structured and have a more methodical approach to teaching/learning. On the other hand, I concur with John F. that the real responsibility lies with the student. What a Dojo does then, is providing an atmosphere and culture where motivated students can thrive. Not all students know what this means though. They cannot always convert self motivation in proper attitude. A little help may be required, like "be on time", "respect your opponent", "do the review", "now it's time for tsumego" ... Some guidelines/rules.

I compared western go not only to eastern go (which I don't really know from experience) but also to other western sports clubs, like my table tennis club. I need to be on time, I cannot sit on the tables, when the coach explains we form a U in front of him, when we pair for exercises there's a system to avoid sparring with your best friend all the time etc etc

Most of these players are self motivated but they manage to keep their stamina thanks to an external structure. Without it, I know what happens: players show up when they like and play free table tennis or matches against partners of their preference. It's very hard for 2 motivated students to find each other and practice what is needed for their game.

This is also what happens in most go clubs. Free entrance & exit, drinking, chatting, games and at best a bit of review.

That's what I meant with failure of free club culture. It's not about teachers bombarding students with knowledge. It's about clubs setting up a structure in which students can thrive, scaffolded with requirements for the students' attitude.