Life In 19x19

The robots are taking over!!! everyone evacuate to the Moon!

Nouuuu!!!

It was a fascinating game!

That was great!

I wish they'd put up separate streams in addition to the official one. It would be nice to get one stream for the game-room and one for the demo board so that we could choose how much screen real-estate to give to each and also have the option to watch other commentaries, instead of the official one. The official broadcast seemed to be constantly showing the wrong one at the wrong time and showing far too little of the game-room and the players themselves.

I watched a bit of the AGA broadcast because it had more detailed commentary and they seemed to have a stream from the game-room in the top-left corner. Does anyone know where to get that feed?

(Yeah, I have a 27-inch monitor and all-the-Internets, I can stream more than one thing and YouTube certainly has the bandwidth for it.)

I was expecting AlphaGo to win, but Lee really seemed to believe in himself. It was really bad watching him for the last ~15 minutes, you could see the pain and sadness on his face whenever the camera went to him. Pretty damn rough, really emotive. His hands were shaking too, and also the computer's move relayer's hands were shaking quite a bit earlier (around when the lower right area was being completed). I wonder if it was 'obvious' to the computer (if it shows its winrate) that it had won at that point, and the relayer could see it. And the move towards the top right, where the computer played the wrong atari - that was the point I figured it knew for sure it was going to win as it was such a 'basic' mistake. That must have been so damn intimidating for Lee, almost like it was mocking him.

Intense, can't wait for tomorrow. I hope Lee doesn't get too down if he loses 5-0.

One of the key moments for me was Lee's bad timing of the s13 atari. If there's one thing bots are good at it is deciding if your move is really sente or a bluff and playing something else more important first. I hope he can put this loss behind him and not be so careless in the next game. He needs to maintain concentration for every move, the bot is merciless at punishing fake sentes.

Simba wrote:It was really bad watching him for the last ~15 minutes, you could see the pain and sadness on his face whenever the camera went to him.

Yes.

Kirby wrote:I lost a little bit of respect for them, though, when I saw the nature video clip where one of the lead programmers on the team mentioned their upcoming challenge against "Lee See-dol".

It's a small mistake, and has nothing to do with the development of their AI - but at least it gives me the idea that he might not understand the magnitude of difference between a pro and top pro if he doesn't even know how to pronounce the name of the person they are challenging.

Even Michael Redmond 9p admitted during the broadcast that he didn't know how to pronounce Lee Sedol's name correctly. Apparently this is more of a matter of whether one knows Korean.

Simba wrote:I was expecting AlphaGo to win, but Lee really seemed to believe in himself. It was really bad watching him for the last ~15 minutes, you could see the pain and sadness on his face whenever the camera went to him. Pretty damn rough, really emotive. His hands were shaking too,

I am not certain, but I thought Lee Sedol's hand-shaking was counting.

Uberdude wrote:AlphaGo wins the first game by resignation! 28 people are already wrong, more than the 17 who voted for any margin of AlphaGo victory!

I am one of the 28. Glad I didn't find a site that let me bet on that outcome. I might have lost a good chunk of change.

wineandgolover wrote:

Simba wrote:I was expecting AlphaGo to win, but Lee really seemed to believe in himself. It was really bad watching him for the last ~15 minutes, you could see the pain and sadness on his face whenever the camera went to him. Pretty damn rough, really emotive. His hands were shaking too,

I am not certain, but I thought Lee Sedol's hand-shaking was counting.

I'm pretty sure that was counting rather tha shaking. But his face did look painful at the end.

It was definitely counting. He was using both hands, presumably to keep track of units and groups (not necessarily ones and tens, tho).

I actually think Lee Sedol shouldn't have resigned but played to counting, maybe AlphaGo has some bug and would screw something up. Unlikely, but it's worth testing at least once. Though I can also understand Lee treating it with the respect he would a human and resigning as he did.

Yeah I agree. Though I have the impression that he resigns very often compared to many other pros, even when the game is close, if he's sure that he has lost

Uberdude wrote:I actually think Lee Sedol shouldn't have resigned but played to counting, maybe AlphaGo has some bug and would screw something up. Unlikely, but it's worth testing at least once. Though I can also understand Lee treating it with the respect he would a human and resigning as he did.

I think it was Otake who said if you don't resign at the right moment, it can get too late? Anyway it's a pro thing, and there are issues of dignity and etiquette. "Never resign" is definitely for amateurs.

I wasn't suggesting to never resign (indeed I often give up and resign rather early in my games). If he played out and lost this game by 5 points, and the next by 3, then resigning the 3rd when he is losing by 5 would be more warranted as AlphaGo would have demonstrated it can successfully finish a game (it did weird things at the end of Fan Hui game 1). Zen19X 7d lost a game on KGS by 0.5 because it filled in its own territory too many times (presumably due to some bug in the scoring or komi logic) and whilst I expect DeepMind have tested this thoroughly I still think it could be worth verifying. Winning in such a way would certainly be cheap, but by treating the AI with the respect he would a human he could be hiding its crucial weakness. Also didn't Sakata often play out big losses, I recall someone posting anecdotes here about how he wanted to know how many points his mistakes were worth.