Page 7 of 12

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:09 pm
by Majordomo
Finally it's my turn to turn the tables and win a lost (or at least very close) game!

So this game features me not knowing my tsumego or attack and defense directions, and my opponent giving me a million ways to practice these.

I've just had it reviewed by my teacher so I'm still mulling over parts of it but I'll post the uncommented game here. Interesting fact, it was also my 200th game of (19x19) Go! So, what, 800 more to go to shodan?


Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:11 am
by Majordomo
Ach, consolidating territory, or failing to. I feel I played very poorly at the beginning of the game, catching myself in "blitzing" - which I think shows in the result. And then in the late mid / early endgame I came apart when I tried too hard to consolidate my territory with some crude moves. And I couldn't find a way to turn the game while in my last byoyomi.

http://eidogo.com/#COOeejMO

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:58 pm
by Majordomo
I've posted a game I played on GoKibitz:
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/4k1g34Y2W

I haven't been playing much on KGS this week because of two things a) few opponents for 3-5k when I play and b) (stupid) rank anxiety that has been flaring up for some stupid reason (the cure is to lose a bunch and realise that it doesn't mean I can never improve despite of it).

Anyway, I'm reasonably happy with this game - but I don't think I adequately took profit from attacking - and maybe I gave him too much in the process of trying to harrass his group (paid of when I killed it, but I don't think I should have).

The SGF (I've done more comments over on Gokibitz):

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:28 am
by Majordomo
Still on OGS - two games against the same player. One wherein I make a big reading mistake then go full tilt in the hope that he'll return the favour (he didn't and I knew what I was doing didn't work) and one where I made a better showing and win despite a few mess-ups near the end (though still comfortably ahead despite them).

For the first game, is the p5 hane an overplay or did I just follow it up wrong? I think instead of connecting Q2 I first atari his stone and maybe we exchange where I get a ponnuki on top and he on the bottom of the board? I think I expect too good results in situations like these because I've been taught that this kind of attachment is "bad" - but again, they aren't the "you lose now" kind of bad.

The second game I went over with Leela, just to see if it actually agreed that my position was good once I start running with my center group, and it does. I no doubt made a ton of mistakes because a lot of that sequence was played with only one 20 second period remaining so it felt really stressful heh.

Anyway, the games:




Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:55 pm
by Majordomo
So, I've not been very good at posting here this week - and I haven't been playing any games on KGS except my regular monday teaching game. Instead what I've done is to go and play on IGS instead - mostly because there's a draught of 3-4k's who are playing (and will accept my game requests) when I'm online on KGS, but also because I wanted to shake of some of the rank anxiety / obsession that's been creeping up.

So far IGS has been good, and unlike on KGS I get games almost immediately though with less control (so I often end up against weaker players, but that has been educational as well, I really haven't played white enough because KGS will always make me black even when I request even games against those a rank or two stronger - probably because there's a setting I forget to fix).

Besides that I've also been reading here and looking over quite a few games on GoKibitz and from the KGS game archives (looking at the games of stronger players or people I know and try to see what they are doing and by extension what I'm not doing). I'm also wrapping up Jump Level Up 5 this weekend, after which I don't know where to go - very open to suggestions - I'm thinking Get Strong at Tesuji, The Endgame or re-doing / re-reading something I've done before (Attack and defense?).

I'm also going to try to up my number of games played since that's become very apparent looking at the archives of others, I don't play enough (volume wise). Many of those I've seen have played more games in September than I've played since June.

I'd also like an opinion on playing the KGS bots? Offline I've played some vs. Leela, but online I've stayed away from them, even those at or close to my rank, but does the MCTS bots have similar weaknesses as GnuGo - aka the same "artificialness" to their play? Are they perfectly valid to practice against as compared to human players? I'm probably swayed by a lot of the scepticism I've picked up on in regards to playing bots but I'd be happy to revisit the idea.

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:12 pm
by sparky314
I'd highly recommend Get Strong at Tesuji, if you haven't read it before. I usually read 1001 L&D at the same time, simply so GSAT can break up the monotony of 1001. But GSAT is an excellent volume. If you're at 3-5k, you'll likely breeze through a good portion of the book, but even so, it'll be worth it.

For bots, tonight I played CrazyStone (DL version). It was enjoyable (though, I did continue my losing streak).

Have you considered joining Tygem? If you're on a mac/linux, there's instructions somewhere to install it. And you can play even games galore there, plenty of players. I'd recommend joining as a 3-4k. Like you mentioned in your post to me, it might help with rank anxiety, as its a new, anonymous account that you can just ditch whenever. :)

I haven't played the bots on KGS, so no advice there.

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:53 pm
by Majordomo
Haven't read it, only read Tesuji (but did not complete all the problems at that point, just read through the examples and a cursory attempt at them) and of course the tesuji-problems given in Jump Level Up. I'm sceptical that I'll breeze through them heh, but it'll be good for me to try!

Yeah, got Tygem up and running (on a mac). The thing that bugs me the most is the hassle of extracting the SGFs for reviewing later (compared to the ease of KGS archives or IGS game records). But I guess it wouldn't hurt, do you find that they are more aggressive there? Fighting spirit is a weak point of mine after all.

How's 3-4k there? I'd be tempted to just start out as maybe 1d since I've heard of KGS 4k's OGS 6k's who are able to hold that rank (maybe in part due to the weird system they use) - and as long as it's easy to get games, losing against stronger players til my rank settles wouldn't be too bad heh.

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:25 am
by Knotwilg
Skip a few ranks. I'm 29-2 at 3d on tygem and have a hard time beating 1d at KGS

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:45 am
by sparky314
3-4k is relatively easy to beat if you're already 3-4k KGS, so yes, it's probably a good idea to start higher. 1d would be a good starting point, like Knotwilg says. Or just jump in at 3d and play strong players until you're close to the rank you should be. :blackeye:

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:25 pm
by jeromie
I enjoy playing the bots on KGS. They have some idiosyncratic play styles, but as long as you don't play ONLY the bots and develop your style to beat them I don't think they'll harm you any more than regularly playing the same 4k/5k opponent would. One caveat: don't play the bots that are weaker than you too much. They play noticeably worse moves and can make you lazy.

One nice thing about playing bots occasionally is that they make it easier to gauge gains / losses in strength. The funny thing is what a nonlinear process that is. There are weeks where go seems easy and neither humans not bots around my level seem like a challenge... and then I'll follow that up with an extended losing streak. My frame of mind has a tremendous impact on my actual playing strength.

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:08 am
by Majordomo
Two games from IGS, been doing well but not played as much as I'd have liked (work and daughter with stomach flu will do that heh).

Also, it looks like the Norwegian National Championship will be held at the last weekend of October so that will be fun! I've played once in a tournament before as a 12k (this was in april I think) so it appears I've improved! How much remains to be seen.
Tips? How to go about to ensure I play at my best? I probably ought to play a few pro games on a real board (as I never get to play on the real thing anyhow, just practicing visualising over a board will be good I think) or something if nothing else. Should I practice some fuseki to force my opponents out of the ever-present kobayashi / mini / micro / chinese stuff? Or practice against allowing them to happen?

Probably overthinking it heh, but I want to do my best. The last tournament was very fun, Guo Juan was there to review our games and held a lecture after each day - and I also got to play Simen Agdestein - A chess GM and Magnus Carlsen's former coach and mentor (and brother to his current manager I think) whom I beat with him getting 9 stones (to be fair, he'd just learned the game the previous weekend or so).

Also the two games, one where my opponent played weird in a way that didn't work out and one where I show the most pathetic fighting spirit and only salvage the scraps after him blundering in the endgame (and it wouldn't have been enough if he had komi). I really need to work on my fighting spirit I think, I dismiss my opponents weaknesses too easily and become to fearful of my own.

The bad game where I won by getting lucky:


The game where I won since my opponent played weird (note - I'm very slack and submissive once I feel comfortably ahead, bad practice but when I'm playing my desire to win beats out my desire to learn):

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:18 am
by dfan
Majordomo wrote:Also, it looks like the Norwegian National Championship will be held at the last weekend of October so that will be fun! I've played once in a tournament before as a 12k (this was in april I think) so it appears I've improved! How much remains to be seen.
Tips? How to go about to ensure I play at my best?
The single best thing you can do at this point to improve your performance in a tournament is to get a good night's sleep before your games. I'm completely serious.

Good luck!

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:58 am
by Knotwilg
21 & 39: capturing a single stone is often not that important
53: keep it simple
65: surround
113: shape issue
119: very creative move!!


Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:04 am
by dfan
Knotwilg wrote:21 & 39: capturing a single stone is often not that important
"Quoted for truth", as they say.

Most of us learned around 15k that you shouldn't worry about capturing or defending first-line stones until the endgame, unless they really affect the strength of groups.

At around 5k you learn that the same goes for second-line stones. :) You can pick up a lot of sente at this level by letting your opponents gobble up single stones on the second line.

Of course it is a different story when losing that stone would turn your strong group into a weak one.

Re: Progress in Black and White

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:23 am
by Majordomo
Yeah, it's easy to lose sight of the bigger goal I find - in the reviewed game for 21 I lost oversight by trapping myself in a pattern I'd planned out earlier without considering what else I could get for myself. 39, I thought it would destabilise his group more than it did, but like you show Knotwilg - the clamp is much superior for that purpose.

The double hane at 64 is one of those moves I really should see by now. I think the only thing I read was L13 L12 M11 L14 K13 M14 but then I could connect at M17 and be fine I think (and more out in the center since I don't think he has time to move his L12 stone immediately.

I'm glad you corrected 113 - it's something I did on reflex, but the reflex is wrong in this case (like you show, high would have been better and without the danger of the squeeze).

Thanks a lot for the review and advice Knotwilg - and your tips Dfan, I know sleep is important - too bad my body tends to disagree just before stuff like this or exams hehe.

EDIT: For any who might know - how are the IGS ranks compared to KGS? About par or weaker? I can still adjust my rank since I'm (?) feels about the same I guess but with a lot of variance in terms of style etc I guess.