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95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3105

Page 7 of 10

Re: Re:

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:06 am
by amnal
Tommie wrote:

(...)


Who understands move W60, resp. B61 of the second game,
Kim_Hyo-kon--An_Yeong-kil.sgf?



[/url]


If black cuts, white wedges at E6 and escapes with one liberty to spare.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:17 am
by Tommie
Thanks, Amnal :bow: , I'm becoming weaker.
I was aware of the aji, yet not immediatly.
----> weak :scratch:

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:58 am
by balmung
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Captured Stones: W 0 B 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something has been bugging me the entire game it has tempted me to resign

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this was what aphelion posted and since it was my first game I didn't know if I could object so I went with it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . d c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a-d look beautiful to me and are instinctive moves. firstly you extend from a solid corner secondly you challenge whites base
tell me what you think.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:15 am
by topazg
@Balmung

Tempted to resign?? Why?

FWIW, my feelings:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . d c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Never underestimate the aji of :w10: here.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:21 am
by gaius
@ Balmung:
Yes, the pincers you post would have been perfectly natural, and they are a bit more aggressive than the actual game. However, I think the move in Aphelion's sequence is also perfectly normal and playable even on a professional level; it just gives you a nice solid corner with very few worries later on.

So no worries, he didn't trick you into any suboptimal moves :)

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:52 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Captured Stones: W 0 B 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . W O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He's going to live, but its REALLY going to hurt

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:06 am
by amnal
Balmung:

What happened in the game is overwhelmingly the most common professional play here. Your suggested moves are strong alternatives and very playable (some more so than others), but probably all technically worse than following the mainline (disregarding your early invasion) ;)

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:15 am
by balmung
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Captured Stones: W 0 B 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:16 am
by balmung
I think the capture count is wrong it should be white 1 black 0 how do we fix that?

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:25 am
by Tommie
balmung wrote:I think the capture count is wrong it should be white 1 black 0 how do we fix that?


Hello Balmung,

you can click on Click Here To Show Diagram Code
and change "[go]$$Wcm34 Captured Stones: W 0 B 1"
to "[go]$$Wcm34 Captured Stones: W 1 B 0" if you wish.

Your joseki/opening question is covered in Senseis:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?34PointHighAppr ... Connection
http://senseis.xmp.net/?34PointHighAppr ... incerFight

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:45 am
by judicata
Helel wrote:@Everyone:

Posting of sequences really don't save that much time and they have the potential to cause confusion about what has been played and what's only been suggested. Are they really necessary? Would people miss them if they were disallowed?


What do you mean disallowed? There aren't really referees for Malkovich games--if the players want to say "no suggested sequences" at the outset of the game (just as they sometimes do with whether to allow joseki lookup) they certainly may.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:50 am
by daniel_the_smith
Just change the caption of the diagram. :) (EDIT: oh, I missed a page. Well at least you know no one is lying to you...)

Armpit hit followed by hane-at-head-of-two. No likey.

Is this an emergency situation? That's the only time you should play such moves.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:24 am
by topazg
Helel wrote:Posting of sequences really don't save that much time and they have the potential to cause confusion about what has been played and what's only been suggested.


Save time compared to what? I'm not sure I follow.

Helel wrote:Are they really necessary?


No.

Helel wrote:Would people miss them if they were disallowed?


I certainly would.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:24 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Captured Stones: W 0 B 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X X W . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What is this discussion all about?

Balmung: I meant for the captured stones to indicate the actual color of the stones captured, not the stones that each side has captured. Feel free to change it if you dislike it.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:26 am
by judicata
Helel wrote:What did you think I meant?


I had no idea. It seems an odd thing for the moderators to moderate.

@Aphelion: Sorry, this was on-topic coming from a hidden comment, but it is probably not good to keep the discussion going in a Malkovich game.
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