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106. kirby vs topazg

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3455

Page 7 of 11

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:28 am
by Magicwand
for obs only:
i like white's position below.
black's 3-3 invasion is premature IMO.
white is solid everywhere and black group on left side is a weakness that will cause problem for black later.
white need to play 'a' soon as he has a chance. then he will save one stone in sente and it is a big move for both black and white. maybe he should not play that :W42: or black should lose that hanne and go there first?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . b . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:50 am
by mw42
Joaz Banbeck wrote:To obs:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe Kirby should let him connect...


I don't think so Joaz B39 is quite big and after W40 the game looks about even since it is black's move and black has no weak groups.

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:57 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I must split black, because the benefit to me is so great. It is hard to calculate the point value of this move, but it keeps black's group on the left weak. When black's group is weak, I can more easily make future points.

Also, I wonder if there is something that I can do against the corner in the top left... :)

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:11 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . 9 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, let's throw caution to the wind about the left hand group for now, and take this point because it's huge. I may come under a splitting attack, so I'm going to have to play with a bit of care ... but, I think, so is he, so that's ok.

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:56 am
by Kirby
Locally, his move is annoying. Globally, it seems like he is giving me a chance to fight back. How can I grab the "flow"?

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:44 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, I'll admit that this move looks eerily similar to a move that lost me the "flow" in my last game against Magicwand. In that game, I didn't read out the corner status, and it cost me a lot.

This time, though, I have a plan - I promise.

First of all, it is clearly sente against the corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 2 1 . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


---
Sidenote:
By the way, as a side note, I am still glad that I played the last move I selected, but I was hoping that it was sente against the corner in itself - well, it doesn't seem like it was.

For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 9 4 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 1 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 5 X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | 8 b X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Doesn't work since a move by white at 'a' can be met with a move by black at 'b'.

Furthermore, while I can dream about this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Hooray for me!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I simply don't have an answer to some of white's other obvious responses:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Where do I play, now?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I can dabble in other variations, but it just doesn't seem like I can kill black directly right here.

End of sidenote
---

Anyway, if I couldn't kill the corner, why did I play a move that threatens to kill the corner? Aren't I beating a dead bush (or is it a dead horse???)?

Well, here's how I see the situation:
1.) I am behind, on solid points by a good margin. If I try to compete for points directly, I will surely lose the race.
2.) He has a weak group in an area where I have strength on the left.
3.) He has just played a single stone as a reduction move on the top.

Based on these observations, I believe that the winning strategy for white in this game is to ignore getting points in a direct fashion, and attack black. The problem is, I need to attack in such a way that I can get future points from the deal.

So how do I attack black? Simply pressing against the black group does not seem like a good strategy:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why? Because the exchange below strengthens black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . O B . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O B . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black has strength in the marked area, so after the :w1: :b2: exchange, above, there is almost no attack left on the black stones.

Also, this move seems to be trying to make territory with my wall. I do not think that trying to make territory directly is a good strategy, because as I mentioned earlier, I am behind on territory. Plus, with his shoulder-hit reduction, it is hard to make a lot of territory in this position. I do not think that I should try to make territory with a wall. I should try to attack with a wall!

Ergo, what I would like to do is to play a capping move. It feels to me like it is a way to get the "flow". It feels to me like a move that Magicwand would play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But can this work? :scratch:

The problem is, black seems to have an escape route, which puts my wall in danger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X W . 6 . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . W . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X W . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W W . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hence, the purpose of my last move. With an exchange, first, against the corner, it seems like I can play the capping move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 9 . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 8 . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So that is the "hidden" (obvious?) purpose of the move I just played.

---

Future plans:
So let's say things go as expected, and I can get black to retreat from my attacking move. For example, let's say the board position is like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now what? Well, I would like to turn around and then attack the shoulder-hitting stone.

For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Will this work? I do not know. But I have thought about it a lot, and I know that I must attack to use the stones on this board effectively. White's position calls for attacking - not for blindly surrounding territory. So attacking is what I must do.

It will be interesting to me to see how things unfold, and to see if things happen in an unexpected way.

Let's hope I am victorious. :rambo:

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:56 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unusual, but sente. I'm wondering what the purpose is - the hane and connect I think would be sente, but either way it's gote for me, so not urgent. This means he's probably plotting something devious. Can't see the attack on the top stone, being helped here, unless that last move is a "get out of jail free card" for that wall - in which case, I can't understand why he didn't just play to split. Something fishy is in the air.

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:25 am
by Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i can't stop wondering whether Kirby couldn't use this sequence for his goals (after some slight modification to the plan).

however, i am not entirely convinced i would play like white, i might try answering black shoulderhit by L16 and then aim at splitting attack between two resulting black groups

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:55 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Operation commence!

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:00 am
by mw42
I like the amount of thought Kirby put into this move, but I wonder if it misses the big picture. The way I see it, he is behind in territory and his strategy doesn't secure any. He will get little at the top and the center will be mostly dame. How can he win?

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:02 am
by topazg
Lots of moves I'd consider here on instinct. This is the sort of position where careless instinct can get me killed, so I'm going to think a bit. Kirby's last move makes sense now (though I still think the hane and connect would be better), although I don't think it affects the fight too much. This has been a really good point for a while, I'm going to want to tread carefully. If I come out of this cleanly, I think I'm probably slightly ahead now.

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:05 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 3 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, that's enough thinking. Because of C8, he can't easily crosscut - I don't have to worry about him getting stronger with the exception of needing to look after K16, and this stone is a long way out from there. I've also got a few tactical ideas sitting around. Let the fighting commence.

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:12 am
by Kirby
Hmm. He played an interesting response. Considering the previous strategy that I put forth, it seems to make sense to hane:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X W . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black responds locally, I can then attack with 'a', as stated.

However, I wonder about his local move. I'm not entirely certain that it secures the safety of his group. It makes me wonder if I can push forward on a local attack as follows:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 4 X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, he has some forcing moves, such as the atari at the marked intersection, above... But will his group be OK? My wall is pretty strong, still, so maybe I can play aggressively like this.

The question now is, can I profit locally, immediately? If I can, I should cash in. If it will not work, then maybe I should let back and go for a global attack (eg. the hane on the outside)...

Hmm... :scratch:

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:38 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 4 X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I think that playing more aggressively looks OK. Let's see if I can push him around.

Re: 106. kirby vs topazg

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:43 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 5 O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 4 X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wheee, fighting time!
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 7 of 11

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