$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 1 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 1 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:06 pm
by Puppycakes
Well, I went back and read your comments already because I figured I could.
I like the idea of discussing this tsumego, though.
I almost played this, but then didn't like this:
$$Bm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 6 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 1 O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 7 X O 2 0 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | 5 4 O X 8 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X 9 X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 6 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 1 O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 7 X O 2 0 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | 5 4 O X 8 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X 9 X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$Bm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | X O O X O 2 3 . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X 4 . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O O O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | X O O X O 2 3 . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X 4 . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:07 pm
by mw42
@EdLee
I believe that's why he resigned. He moved to quickly and realized his mistake before I even made my move.
@Puppycakes
If it is your decision to stick with the resign, then I feel I stole this from you. You definitely had me on the ropes with this group. I was too bold, and you played against my invasion very well.
Did you consider this move?
$$Bm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X . c . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O d . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O a b X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X . c . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O d . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O a b X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If W(a) then B(c) surrounds and kills, I believe. If W(b) then B(d). After I think white is hopeless.
Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:14 pm
by Puppycakes
mw42 wrote:@EdLee
I believe that's why he resigned. He moved to quickly and realized his mistake before I even made my move.
@Puppycakes
If it is your decision to stick with the resign, then I feel I stole this from you. You definitely had me on the ropes with this group. I was too bold, and you played against my invasion very well.
Did you consider this move?
$$Bm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X . c . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O d . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O a b X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X . c . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O d . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O a b X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If W(a) then B(c) surrounds and kills, I believe. If W(b) then B(d). After I think white is hopeless.
That's the sequence that I was going to play, but then I read that it didn't work and now I see that I simply hallucinated something up.
Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:17 pm
by mw42
Indeed, your sequence was what I was expecting.
$$Bm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a c O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . b O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a c O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . b O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If (a) then I believe I could live.
$$Bm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O . O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . 4 , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 2 O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O 5 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | 4 . 2 , O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 8 6 3 O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 1 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Your sequence for (c) was similar to mine and is the most complicated. This is why I avoided it when running was possible and was planning to resort to it as a last ditch effort when I got myself into trouble.
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:31 pm
by EdLee
Puppycakes,
Puppycakes wrote:I just realized that I think with this, he lives
What if... at (a) more fighting?
$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Re:
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:34 am
by mw42
EdLee wrote:Puppycakes,
Puppycakes wrote:I just realized that I think with this, he lives
What if... at (a) more fighting?
$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Why not at (b)?
$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | b 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | b 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Thanks for the game, Puppycakes, if we do play again perhaps it should be even. I think you are at least as strong as me.
Re: Re:
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:00 am
by Puppycakes
mw42 wrote:
EdLee wrote:Puppycakes,
Puppycakes wrote:I just realized that I think with this, he lives
What if... at (a) more fighting?
$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Why not at (b)?
$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | b 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . . . X . X X . . | $$ | 6 O O 8 O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | b 5 1 7 O . O . . X . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . O 9 O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . . . O X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Thanks for the game, Puppycakes, if we do play again perhaps it should be even. I think you are at least as strong as me.
I'd love to play again. Also. I think I'd love to see comments on this game.
Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:55 am
by aurik
Keep in mind that I'm not any stronger than you guys so don't take my comments as correct...just my weak opinion.
* Unless my reading is wrong (which happens quite often, so double-check me!) B9 in that diagram is failing to kill in gote, W doesn't even need to play @ 'b' yet.
* In retrospect, I didn't really like 45. The moyo is a bit too open. I also don't really like trying to build a moyo with non-forcing moves. I would prefer moves that take contested territory as long as they are available; 46 seemed like to be a sharp response.
* I think 70 would have been better played directly at 74. B's most aggressive response locally still seems to be 71, but you aren't trading 72 for 73+75+1 white prisoner, and the sequence remains playable later.
* If there wasn't local life already at that point, cutting at E7 (hane at the foot instead of hane at the head) at 80 would have lead to a very interesting fight.
* 79 @ C8 indead of B7 looks like an interesting attack, might have been sufficient to kill locally and lead to the running fight.
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:33 pm
by EdLee
mw42,
mw42 wrote:Why not at (b)?
You're right; that variation was wrong.
$$B Seki? $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . $$ | 6 O O . O O X O . . . $$ | 7 5 1 . O . O . . X . $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------
[go]$$B Seki? $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . $$ | 6 O O . O O X O . . . $$ | 7 5 1 . O . O . . X . $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]
Maybe this is better for ?
$$B $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . $$ | 5 O O . O O X O . . . $$ | . . 1 . O . O . . X . $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . $$ | 5 O O . O O X O . . . $$ | . . 1 . O . O . . X . $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]
Re: 108: Puppycakes (3k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:35 pm
by mw42
@EdLee
I saw this and was planning on making this sacrifice if necessary.
$$B B(a) W(b) $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X a X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X Q X X X . . . $$ | 5 O O 7 Q Q X Q . . . $$ | 6 8 1 9 Q . Q . . X . $$ | . O 0 O X . Q . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X W b . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------
[go]$$B B(a) W(b) $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X a X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X Q X X X . . . $$ | 5 O O 7 Q Q X Q . . . $$ | 6 8 1 9 Q . Q . . X . $$ | . O 0 O X . Q . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X W b . . . . . . . $$ | . 3 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]
This is a big loss which is why I chose to play when I did.
The order I was looking at though, was like this
$$B $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . $$ | 5 O O . O O X O . . . $$ | . . 3 . O . O . . X . $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . $$ | . 1 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------
[go]$$B $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . X O X . O O X . . . $$ | . . X O O . X . X , . $$ | . . X X . O O . . . . $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . $$ | X . X . X . . . . . . $$ | . X O X O X X X . . . $$ | 5 O O . O O X O . . . $$ | . . 3 . O . O . . X . $$ | . O . O X . O . . . . $$ | 4 2 . O X . X X . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . $$ | . 1 O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X . X X . . . . . $$ | . . . , X O . X . O . $$ | . . . . . O . O . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]
?
I think white is hopeless.
at (a) more fighting? 
?
when I did.