Page 7 of 8

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:00 pm
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . 8 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If this stone on F3 magically comes back to life, I could be in a lot of trouble with a weak group on both sides. This move removes a lot of the aji of this stone. If black gets to extend it to F4 himself, I'm in a lot of trouble. I looked at other ways of blocking for example playing on F5, but then black can escape via G4 and it's not great since both my white groups would be weak... I've also worked out (I think!) that if black extends to D14, I win the semeai, so not worried about that :) .

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:13 pm
by Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . 9 . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok... wasn't expecting his move there... a little too precautionary I think.. So I will take a big point on the board then... this leaves miai for me at a and b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . a . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . 9 . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:19 pm
by EdLee
:b35: seems wrong direction, not urgent, since :ws: is already settled;
:b1: seems big, aiming at the weakness at (a):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . @ . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:26 pm
by EdLee
Jordus wrote:this leaves miai for me at a and b
(a) and (b) are not miai, because (b) is a very big shared point --
it has to do with the weakness of the :wc: group:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm27
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . a . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . 9 . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
For example, if W gets :w1:, W takes care of :wc:,
and the :b2: :w3: exchange is clearly good for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . 2 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:05 pm
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not too bothered by him playing that move - I thought he would've tried to extend from his shimari on the right since there is still room to extend there in the correct direction. So, I'll take that extension for myself - it's kind of doubly big since it's good for both of us. I think this is the right distance. If I play one line closer to black's shimari, he might pincer and that's a bit eww...

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:08 pm
by Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . 1 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:41 pm
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've been reading 'Opening Theory Made Easy' recently, and one of the points in the book is to make your moyo '3d'. By this he means extend your moyo towards the centre. So, I think this point is good. I was torn between this point and something like G16 for more security, but if I play cautiously with G16, he can play something like L15, pushing back my development potential and also developing from his corner and edge. I don't know - maybe G16 is fine, but I don't like black's potential replies to it. I'm just worried that K15 might trigger an invasion... Maybe I could kill the invasion - I'm not entirely sure. I'd definitely try. This seems like a more ambitious move, and I guess if I'm going to improve, I can't keep fearing my own shadow...

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:35 pm
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What?! You cannot do this. You absolutely absolutely cannot do this. You MUST CUT here. If you were going to give up that original approach that easily here, you should have just played at D11 in the first place and the corner would still have been open.

Abandoning a stone like the way White has done with C14 is completely not acceptable. If you played it, you can't even begin to consider losing it without getting value out of it. Cowardice is the sure path to a loss.

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:39 pm
by Aphelion
Man, white has made up a ton of lost ground in less than 10 moves...

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:19 pm
by Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have to reduce the top corner moyo... how best to do that? somewhere around where I am playing is my best guess

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:56 pm
by Jordus
grrrrr... not happy with my move... been sitting here thinking things over... bah!

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:17 pm
by Aphelion
For Jordus after game
I think its a nice move :P

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:29 pm
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 4 . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sigh, I wish I'd played G16 instead of K15... Should've listened to my instinct... Disappointed, how frustrating :( . I've spent about 90 minutes reading this move out, and at best I get a pretty crappy result... But none of the alternatives look any good either... Annoying.

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:47 pm
by Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I see two moves for white will probably make right now... They will protect around (a) or extend (b)

if they protect at (a), I have the option to play at (b), (c), or (d)... My most likely (c) or (d) would be my choices to play...

if they extend at (b), I suppose extending at (e) would be best...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O a . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . c . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . 5 . b . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Malkovich 113- Jordus v. Simba

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:50 pm
by Redundant
Aphelion wrote:For Jordus after game
I think its a nice move :P

Jordas' 39 locally looks like something from Shuko's reducing territorial frameworks.