Life In 19x19

Is it possible that you mean "thickness" when you're saying moyo? Moyo implies to me that you already have some area loosely enclosed, and that doesn't seem to be the case yet. I agree that you can probably turn the center into a moyo, it just doesn't look like one at the moment...

daniel_the_smith wrote:Is it possible that you mean "thickness" when you're saying moyo? Moyo implies to me that you already have some area loosely enclosed, and that doesn't seem to be the case yet. I agree that you can probably turn the center into a moyo, it just doesn't look like one at the moment...

I don't think it can be either. It's not thick (yet), and it's certainly not a moyo - it does have a lot of influence though. I read it as influence

i must have meant influence. i guess i used that term without really knowing the defintion.
when i heard that term first time i was told that moyo = influence.
i guess i used that term without really knowing the defintion.
can someone clearify exact meaning of moyo?

Magicwand wrote:i must have meant influence. i guess i used that term without really knowing the defintion.
when i heard that term first time i was told that moyo = influence.
i guess i used that term without really knowing the defintion.
can someone clearify exact meaning of moyo?

Moyo = framework

This move gives me room for connecting or running out. Black might peep my eyespace, but I should still be able to live

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Move 43 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As mentioned by others, the move at a is very heavy. I recommend this instead.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Move 43 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W . 7 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b . 1 3 5 a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Should insist on the peep, then up to , the stone is heavily weakened. Of course, may choose to play at a or b instead.

I think I'm doing alright, but I might have to take gote and let white get in a move on the top. I want to see how white responds here. Here's what I'm thinking:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 O O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 there is still some aji that white can take advantage of, but I can save my main group.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 Maybe a better result for black...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Basically, I want to see how Magicwand responds to this, and then I'm going to adjust my plan accordingly.

wow that is hard to answer. i looked at it for 5 min and could not come up with satisfying move.
this is best i can do...i am willing to let him out if i can limit the upper right corner by 2.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm57 Move 57 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . 2 . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think that Magicwand played a strong move. I think that he is planning on the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W O a O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am not strong enough in the top right corner to cut at "a", I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 6 . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But still, I think it's important for me to atari, because it allows me to make an eye if necessary:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 X 1 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and, since white will almost definitely respond, it is helpful for my making life.

Wow, he didn't play at M14. I'm kind of surprised at this move. I guess he has some stuff against the corner around P17, but I don't care about that. My corner should be fine, especially since I have S14 when I want it. I think that this is fine! As a bonus, if white does P17 and I can get in P16, the cut at O14 becomes dangerous for him. I like it!

Edit: Also, some of his stones are getting weaker:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm60
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . W W W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm tired of just waiting for life with my group. Maybe I can go on the attack soon. That'd be fun

wow..i am in deep trouble. i will play a move that is even stronger. see if he backdown.

He made a good choice of move, I think. I'll explain how I came up with my response.

1.) If I try to block directly, I don't have much hope of sealing him in and killing the stones that I mentioned may become weak in the previous post. Here's a simple example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With above, white can easily escape with his group, and then it becomes me - not him - that is being sealed in and in potential danger.

2.) Because of this, I want to seal him in. Trying to cut doesn't do much even if it did work, because white can crawl on the second line and save his group (He probably wouldn't do this directly. I'm just showing that he can choose to do this whenever he wants):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The same is true with a move like "a" above.

3.) So, I chose the move I did in the game. The threat of him peeping my corner is reduced, because of the danger his stones could be in. For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . O 6 X 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe I can come up with a sequence better than above, but in any case, I don't need to worry about the peep so much. If he does try it, I can think of the best sequence. I know that I at least have the one in the diagram above.

4.) Ideally, I can continue to attack his group. I don't know if that's realistic. But I would like to be broken out, and attacking him in the best case. In the worst case, all of my groups seem safe, and the match continues. I don't think that I'm behind.

this is kind of stuff i saw few times from him.
if i play normally he matches whatever i play like a professional.
if i play an overplay he backdown and plays aji keshi.
white clearly had weak cutting points and he let me connect without anything in return.