[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X . X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O 1 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
well everybody knows i have been talking about this fight for a long time now, the big difference is im alot more solid on the left side and these two white stones (m3 o3) are already dead, well lets see if my reading paid off, i was expecting the nobi next
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:06 pm
by Nathan
$$Bcm57 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . 2 X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X . X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O 1 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm59 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X 1 X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
this is sente of coruse i gotta stay connected and keep him seperated, thats a basic thing in Go
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:34 pm
by Puppycakes
:w58: is another move that I think I remember at around their level. It's sente right? Yes, but so is extending. This move just induces black to fix his weakness while not getting much in exchange.
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:50 am
by EdLee
For Nathan, after the game,
Nathan wrote:This move keeps sente...
One common misunderstanding/confusion at these levels is good sente moves versus bad ones:
$$Bm57 $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ . . . O . . 2 X O . O . . | $$ . . . O X X 3 X O X O . . | $$ O O O X X O . O 1 X X . . | $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$----------------------------
[go]$$Bm57 $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ . . . O . . 2 X O . O . . | $$ . . . O X X 3 X O X O . . | $$ O O O X X O . O 1 X X . . | $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$----------------------------[/go]
With - you immediately make a broken shape for yourself:
$$B $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ . . . O . . Q X O . O . . | $$ . . . O X # # # O X O . . | $$ O O O X X Q . Q X X X . . | $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$----------------------------
[go]$$B $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ . . . O . . Q X O . O . . | $$ . . . O X # # # O X O . . | $$ O O O X X Q . Q X X X . . | $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$----------------------------[/go]
As Puppycakes noted, if you simply extend with , it's also sente, but with better shape:
$$W $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X . 1 O . O . . . | $$ . . . O . . . X O . O . . | $$ . . . O X X . X O X O . . | $$ O O O X X O . O X X X . . | $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$----------------------------
[go]$$W $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X . 1 O . O . . . | $$ . . . O . . . X O . O . . | $$ . . . O X X . X O X O . . | $$ O O O X X O . O X X X . . | $$ . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$----------------------------[/go]
Not all sente moves are good. Some are bad sente moves.
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:54 pm
by Nathan
$$Bcm59 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X 1 X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm59 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X 1 X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Sorry for my slow play... I will try and play faster.
My head hurts...
Ok so here are some rambling thoughts
My group has a lot of aji here so I need to get more solidified before I venture too much further out. I need to settle to create at least one eye near the wall.
I am considering both o7 and p7 to solidify my position but they also ffeel very passive.
I am considering s3 to settle and put a little pressure on his group. But it feels like it will be gote.
I could try and play p8 but I think my group is too weak to start attacking.
Also after all this corner business he has built up a huge moyo that will be difficult to come back from. But giving up doesnt sound fun at all.
The more thinking this game requires the more I am procrastinating each move. Not good.. Need to start being more diligent.
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:54 pm
by 1986
$$Bcm61 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
im expecting Nathan to connect or nobi either way i can swallow up the stones to the left if i ever feel like this group gets under pressure, i wonder how he is planning on making life over here, thats what im thinking about hmmmn
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:24 pm
by Nathan
$$Bcm61 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . 2 | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm63 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
he is trying to create some eyes, not on my watch im going in for the kill ,
first im going to hit the vital point, well its more like the area where it will be easiest for him to make eyes, and its a nice one space jump from my stone, so its a natural progression instead of just a shot in the dark, another benefit is it makes q5 so detrimental
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:57 pm
by Nathan
$$Bcm63 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O 2 O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm65 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O . O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i think i jinxed myself calling out the kill shot he saw through my plan. so now for peep, if he connects here i will continue to press in on his eye space, if not i will see what hes thinking and adjust
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:42 pm
by Nathan
$$Bcm65 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O 2 O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm67 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . 1 . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
ok, now to start enclosing this group, i want to reduce eye space with s5, but i must enclose first or he will just run for his life and that would mess up my moyo
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:28 am
by Nathan
$$Wcm68 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X 1 X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
- 
you immediately make a broken shape for yourself:
, it's also sente, but with better shape:
, 