[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X 6 . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That ... surprises me. As far as I can see, the big swinging point for the game could well be who can exercise the best control of the middle, and I would have thought he would want to use the weakness of my group over here to stake his claim to the centre in as big and bold a way as possible. However, this fixes some of my shape issues, pushes me into the middle, and threatens to cut on only one side (the side I'd, frankly, rather like him to cut). I guess I'm missing something :S
Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:30 pm
by jts
perhaps magicwand worries that b12 would fix the cut in sente?
Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:59 pm
by Magicwand
$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 0 . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X 6 . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 0 . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X 6 . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:28 pm
by The Intrepid
jts wrote:perhaps magicwand worries that b12 would fix the cut in sente?
Hmm, perhaps. However, to me it seems he is simply trying to make sure topazg's group does not have more than one eye locally. I suspect Magicwand believes that the Black group will not be able to survive in the center of the board. Personally, I worry that Magicwand might be right. That is why I was very surprised by topazg's 67th move. I think he should have considered reinforcing his group on the left--perhaps at at "a," for example:
$$Bcm67 A mistake? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 1 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . a X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The middle's where I want to go. He can't kill more than one of those stones on the left, and if I can neutralise this area, I gain a couple of new fun moves:
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . b O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . a . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X . . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I disagree with his exchange on top left corner. IMO He should have played 3-3 point instead. his 63 was too small.. or less urgent. I wanted to play there but didnt because it was too small of gote. You should think like your opponent. if you opponent is not playing because of small gote..it is not urgent. my exchange on the bottom is also bad..and i knew it was bad. I played it because my opponent might play elsewhere and even if he play correctly i wouldnt lose toomuch.
$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X 6 . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 0 . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X 6 . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
70 attack is forceful attack. white played patiently thick moves giving black all the points. now his group is in danger. i think his middle influence will be reased due to his weak group.
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X . X . . a . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X 4 X . 2 . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can't afford to lose all 3 stones I think, so I have to respond here. The question, naturally, is whether the whole thing dies ... but, let's hope not eh?
Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:04 pm
by Magicwand
E10
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X 4 X . 2 . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X 4 X . 2 . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
his answer seems wrong. even if he answer and try to save his stones he still need to place another stone to save them. it is small. below was good enough for black erasing my influence and making my peep a bad move and looking to cut my weakness at "a".
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . a O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X 4 X . 2 . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X 4 X . 2 7 . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It shouldn't be too hard to make an eye now in the middle, and another below these stones - that's the theory. Either way, I've exchanged a whole bunch of points for a) not dying, and b) creating a situation where White can't create a huge number of points in the middle. Is it enough for White with that size loss though? No idea.
Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 am
by Magicwand
G10
Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:30 am
by topazg
$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 6 . 8 9 . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X 4 X . 2 7 . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 6 . 8 9 . , . . . . . , X X . | $$ | . . X 4 X . 2 7 . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . 5 . X 3 X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Unexpected response. I thought he'd play the atari simply so he could hane here. It's not particularly aji keshi as he can't cut off those two stones anyway.
