Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
https://lifein19x19.com/

Big Brother Malkovich #2

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=775

Page 7 of 20

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:48 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Move 19 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X B X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Forced.

This move removes a lot of aji on my right. I think W is making a mistake.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:43 pm
by topazg
Followup:

The reason I chose against changing that move, as with the majority of my reading in the previous post, is because some of it is just so complicated to read, and I want to minimise the number of changes I have to make. Most of the moves White was playing to squeeze out are ataris, so MHO will have obvious approved moves, and if I lose 3 or 4 alterations on any of those lines we are probably in trouble.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:31 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Move 20 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Once again, the only move that still leaves the black group separated.
I'm just not sure what will happen with the top white group. I don't see a good way to live with it, nor a good way to sacrifice it.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:44 pm
by topazg
Not approved :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Move 20b - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . C O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No point in separating two groups that are alive because they killed ours. This move seems to be the only way to create enough aji, am thinking White should have not ataried from that side after all

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:33 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Thank you, Topazg, for attaching to our weak stone! :D

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:57 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Move 21a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Move 21a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . 9 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 8 X 3 1 O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

[hide]
This looks amazing for B. I don't need to kill, if I can make W live sealed or connect my group out in a thick manner and while retaining sente thats a bargain.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:54 am
by Joaz Banbeck
With better defense, it looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Move 21a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 9 . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 7 X 3 1 O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 2 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Which means we can't play quite so aggressively with 6.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Move 21a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 0 8 5 9 . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 4 O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 6 X 3 1 O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Still, this loks better for black.

...which means that the cut at 3 is probably not good for white. So...


I approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:12 am
by topazg
The more I read, the more I should have changed that last one I wanted to. I can see myself changing a bunch more moves now anyway, so it's not like this has helped :P

Honestly, rengo is soo much more easy than this, you double and triple think yourself and your partner all the time here.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:21 am
by topazg
Some reading:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Move 21a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X 2 . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Move 21a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X 2 . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Move 21a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 3 . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O 6 X 2 5 O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:02 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure what topazg has in mind, but this move seems to be basic instinct. Hope it is. :/

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:31 pm
by topazg
I'm going to have to bail out of this game for a while, I've just had a pretty major family life crisis and want to clear my plate out for a while :(

Sorry guys, hope you can pick up a suitable replacement!

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:47 am
by Aphelion
Sorry to hear that topazg, we enjoyed playing with you, and wish you all the best in your life!

Whoever replaces topazg surely cannot approve this. Phelan feels like he is just sleep walking through the game.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:35 am
by daniel_the_smith
I can fill in for Topazg here, too, if you guys want me to.

If you agree then open the below...

I do not approve.

EDIT: fixed corrections remaining.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm22 Move 22a - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=7, W=5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . C O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . O . X W . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


limited thoughts:
Obviously we can't just give up those stones if we don't have to. It looks like a big mess and I think we'll be OK.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:45 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Having Daniel fill in here is ok by me. Phelan? Aphelion? What say you?


EDIT: BTW, Daniel, the corrections counter is the number of corrections still available. So you have to decrement when you play one. :)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:22 am
by Aphelion
I PMed daniel asking him to fill in, so this is obviously fine by me :) Many thanks, daniel.
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 7 of 20

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited