[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners - W: 1, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think I've dodged complete disaster and have settled for moderate disaster. I've lost 3-4 handicap stones of advantage at this point from rough guestimate.
The only source of comfort is that white has a couple weak groups still. If I can get sente, I'll look for some way to attack the upper left white group and/or the two white stones at G3 as a way to aid my left side group. B12 is a point I want to get; it prevents a connection and a white eye at the same time, while confirming my eye at C11.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:18 am
by Magicwand
$$Wcm71 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . 7 . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . 9 . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:08 am
by Magicwand
now i have some time to comment on this game.. my recent move is looking at "a" and "b". i am building some influence to attack unstable group in the middle. also if i can seal lower left corner then i can invade 3-3 point for the kill. i think i can attack the weak group on top now and possibly kill that group. but i also can attack by attacking somewhere else and getting influence. one or two moves by black will not give him life so i dont have to attack directly. black really dont have much points anywhere. i might win by points and not have to kill any group.
$$Wcm71 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . b . 9 . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . a O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . 0 . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My original plan was to attack the white group in the upper left, probably starting with B12. Hopefully, that would get me a little influence in the center which would help me attack this group. But the more I looked at my cut, the less excited I felt about that option. I keep reading out situations where I get cut off in a bad way, and I'm not sure they're the most severe thing white can do. I really feel like I need to protect here, but it feels so slow, and my shape still isn't very good. But this threatens to cut white, so I think it's sente. I just hope it's not too small.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:03 am
by Jonas
Again this game looks like Magicwand will win it because of his opponents fear. Black lost so much in the last 5-6 moves. I believe fwiffo has a strong reading ability but the presence of magicwand seems overwhelming, which leads fwiffo to play moves that are solid, way toooooooo solid. Nobody has won a game of go with just defending moves.
Maybe magicwand has the ability to eat fightingspirits or something?
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:05 am
by Magicwand
$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . 1 . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . 1 . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X a . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:02 am
by fwiffo
SENTE, MY BITCHES! Now I gotta decide what to do with it. I think I gotta B12 before I can attack that group in a serious way, but is it really sente? Maybe I can poke away at that group more strongly. If I get some more power out there then maybe I can get more serious about cutting at F5.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:12 am
by fwiffo
$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I looked at several moves to attack this group. The goal here is to build up a little power in the middle (and maybe take a little territory at the top if the opportunity presents), then see what I can do about the bottom white group.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . d . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O b O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X c e . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . a X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . d . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O b O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X c e . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . a X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I wanted to protect the connection underneath with a, which also removes a potential gote eye for the white group along the edge. But a itself is gote, and the connection underneath is only in ko. Since last I looked at this ko, I think I've gained some threats, so it's less ugly looking than before.
I also considered b, followed by forcing moves at c and/or d (not necessarily in that order). I'm pretty sure it's sente, but it's pretty aji keshi. Almost as bad as pushing through a bamboo joint.
So I figured, if c is forcing after having played b, is it forcing without playing b? I think it is, but it feels slow. So I looked at the jump at e, and it seems to be fine. Yeah, white could push and cut, but that gives me enough forcing moves that I think the result is favorable for black.
$$B $$ ------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . X X . . . $$ | . X X X O . . . . $$ | . . O 6 8 . . . . $$ | . . O 5 O 7 . . . $$ | . O . X 2 1 . . . $$ | . . X . 3 4 0 . . $$ | . X . . . 9 . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . $$ | O . O . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . .
[go]$$B $$ ------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . X X . . . $$ | . X X X O . . . . $$ | . . O 6 8 . . . . $$ | . . O 5 O 7 . . . $$ | . O . X 2 1 . . . $$ | . . X . 3 4 0 . . $$ | . X . . . 9 . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . $$ | O . O . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . .[/go]
$$Bm11 $$ ------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . X X . . . $$ | . X X X O . . . . $$ | . . O O O . . . . $$ | . . O X O X . . . $$ | . O . X O X . . . $$ | . . X 3 X O O 4 . $$ | . X . . 2 X 1 . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . $$ | O . O . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bm11 $$ ------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . X X . . . $$ | . X X X O . . . . $$ | . . O O O . . . . $$ | . . O X O X . . . $$ | . O . X O X . . . $$ | . . X 3 X O O 4 . $$ | . X . . 2 X 1 . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . $$ | O . O . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . .[/go]
is needed to prevent a ladder, so he can't run away with . So I think the push and cut is unlikely.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:16 am
by Magicwand
$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
what i played is probably an overplay but since i have ko to secure my life i will push my luck. if i get some more points in the middle..i dont have to caputre any of his group to win.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:19 am
by fwiffo
$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm81 Prisoners - W: 2, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I read this out... I'm so curious what is being written!