Life In 19x19

Is better to play territorial styles or influential ones?

It is probably better to play a balanced style.

There is no general rule which style is the best. Otherwise go would be too easy:)

Well i try to keep a balance but an 1 kyu friend of mine tells me to either go for territory or influence not for both in the same time, for example i played K4 and R10 and was told that those moves do not work together and i could have played Q10 to go full influence or K3 for the points.(it had nothing to do with the moves my opponent played btw) So i am trying to understand if i have misunderstood the concept of go.

lordish wrote:Is better to play territorial styles or influential ones?

No.

lordish wrote:Well i try to keep a balance but an 1 kyu friend of mine tells me to either go for territory or influence not for both in the same time, for example i played K4 and R10 and was told that those moves do not work together and i could have played Q10 to go full influence or K3 for the points.(it had nothing to do with the moves my opponent played btw) So i am trying to understand if i have misunderstood the concept of go.

I would not take your friend's remarks too seriously. The important thing is to have a good reason for each move. I would not worry about style at all.

Your friend is correct in saying that your stones should be consistent, but he is incorrect in saying that you can only go for either territory or influence. A balance can be reached and that style of balancing territory and influence is what I play for. The key is to make sure that you are still being consistent with the stones you've already played.

The Low Chinese is my favorite opening. It aims for both territory and influence using a mix of low and high stones. This opening is played by many professionals. Take your pick of a pro, look through their games, and you will either find them playing this opening or having it played against them on a regular basis.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 The Low Chinese Opening
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I would generally trust someone who is 1 kyu to be able to instruct a DDK player, so I'm sure other factors on the board were taken into account when he said your move wasn't right. You should know that there are many board positions where those moves would be playable. The other stones on the board really matter when it comes to the decision to play K4 or K3. An R10 stone matters, but the corner situation on both sides matters as well. For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Possible Sanrensei Opening
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . a . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I personally feel that is better here than at 'a' because it isn't undercut by . Obviously 'a' is also fine, but I don't think you can argue that is wrong because is high.

I couldn't find this exact position in a quick look on Go4Go, but here's an example of a pro game where black played K3 in spite of all his high stones on the right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Takemiya Masaki 9p (B) vs. Hane Yasumasa 9p (W)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O O O X O . |
$$ | . . O , O . . . . , . . X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

And I'm sure Takemiya considered his R10 stone when he played this, but he also considered the white corner stone that is now undercut on both sides by his move and his own corner stone that this becomes a nice 5-space extension from. White proceeded to invade black's 3-3 point immediately, then white made a living group in the center above the K3 stone, but black ended up winning by resignation after white failed to invade black's area on the left.

All-in-all, don't worry too much about developing a style. That will come naturally. Just play games to win and feel free to experiment. Try a game playing all for influence. Try one playing all for territory. Try one were you go for a mix. The key at all kyu stages (and at dan stages as well) is to keep learning and getting stronger.

Thank you all for your answers, i am still holding back about choosing a pro since i haven't decided how i want to play either.

lordish wrote:Thank you all for your answers, i am still holding back about choosing a pro since i haven't decided how i want to play either.

You could start by looking at games between Cho Chikun and Takemiya Masaki.

What about destruction style? You just mainly destroy what you opponent builds, period. I think it is a legitimate style besides: territoriy and influence.

lordish wrote:Thank you all for your answers, i am still holding back about choosing a pro since i haven't decided how i want to play either.

Choosing a pro? For what purpose? Do you mean for lessons? Or to imitate? Either way, I think it is too early. Given that you are asking the question you are, I would say that the best option now is to look at the play of many different pros and digest as much variety as you can. After all, just because you prefer a certain style does not necessarily imply that your opponent will go along with that and let you. You need to see and be able to play other styles when circumstances dictate.

Balance is the best recommendation. If you only play and concentrate on "influence" openings you'll be at a loss when your opponent prevents you from starting with a moyo. And you'll play to make a moyo when it is not effective because your opponent has built a strong position inhibiting the development of your moyo. Takemiya is famous for his moyo-oriented style but if you really study his games you'll find him making plenty of territory-oriented moves. I would second Bill's comment about not even thinking about a style at this point in your go development. Don't mechanically repeat a pattern no matter what your opponent does, think about the meaning of the moves. Even in the early opening moves have meaning, you don't want just to scatter stones blindly.

I am largely in favor of finding and adhering to a style of play, and being aware of other styles of play, though I think there are other dichotomies that are more practical than influence and territory. Furthermore, I find true style is developed through training.

I don't think it's true that style isn't a consideration until players are strong, but, at the same time, I don't think you choose a style of play.

You'll get the most out of playing the kind of moves that you like to play and then steadily making them more efficient at achieving the goals you're after.

lordish wrote:Is better to play territorial styles or influential ones?

I think that you are too weak and too inexperienced to be making this decision.
( I am also. I am barely 1D, and have only been playing for about 25 years )

The territory/influence distinction is an important one, but for now it is probably best that you apply it to individual moves, not styles.

Once you become a pro, then you can worry about having the coordination of all of your moves into a coherent style.