Life In 19x19

Well, my usual complaint remains, as it did with chess, which I didn't play but my brother did and won a few trophies when he was a boy, the absurd elitism of the players. Perhaps this complaint is unfounded and based on an irrational fear of people, or simply my unfamiliarity with the culture. Don't know. Perhaps I am the elitist here, for not taking someone's amazing talent seriously enough.

However, I have always felt that there was a certain nightmare quality of taking something fun, and then exalting it to the point where it is no longer fun anymore, because only the game is important anymore, and winning, instead of just, a good way to spend free time. Perhaps I'm just worrying too much though. My main outlook on life has always been to always look on the bright side of life. Maybe that's something I just find humorous. Isn't the amount of competition there is what is fun about it, in the end, after all?

I suppose these anxieties come from being told that I was fairly good at the game. I just started playing a lot though, maybe a year ago. I feel like I don't understand the game at all. Even when I win I don't quite understand the strategy that I used, because I play intuitively and quickly. I also don't know if it was the right strategy, or what strategy is even going on. I suppose I understand that there's something going on about a delicate balance of what is important and what is not. But even if I win I still feel that what I did is almost completely incomprehensible to me.

Well, ridiculous maybe... A bit existential angsty.

Why are you discussing high school football in a go forum?

oiseaux morts 1994 wrote:Haha please don't mistake me for Khel or rank obsessed babbies, I just want to play a game of Go and think about my moves and how they can benefit me.

I feel this quote is pertinent.

DrStraw wrote:Why are you discussing high school football in a go forum?

I don't see football anywhere in his post. Maybe I'm blind.

At least you've been told you're "fairly good at the game."

Yes but I'm considering leaving it completely alone because of how irritating, competitive, and grotesquely snobby I always thought they were. Do I have the wrong image? Or the right image of what obsessive board game people are like? Oh, I almost forgot to mention self centered.

And your fantasy football comment is leading me just in that direction.

Sorry to hear that! Sounds like you're playing at the wrong club

I've been really impressed by how all the folks at my local club are very friendly, welcoming, fun-loving, and helpful.

Maybe you could look around for some other clubs/meetups with people who have fun? Or seek out the people you most enjoy playing with and play more games with them?

Also, it sounds like you are mixing a bit of anxiety about your ability in here. You mentioned that sometimes you don't even understand why you lost, have you tried asking stronger players for help? Reviewing the game afterwards or posting questions on this forum? That's one of the most rewarding things I've gotten from the game: having an idea, trying it out and seeing what went wrong and really learning something new from a stronger player if I couldn't figure out the problem on my own.

Shawn Ligocki wrote:Also, it sounds like you are mixing a bit of anxiety about your ability in here. You mentioned that sometimes you don't even understand why you lost, have you tried asking stronger players for help? Reviewing the game afterwards or posting questions on this forum? That's one of the most rewarding things I've gotten from the game: having an idea, trying it out and seeing what went wrong and really learning something new from a stronger player if I couldn't figure out the problem on my own.

No, I said I don't understand why I won. I mean, I understand why I lost... although if I don't understand how I won I guess I also to an extent don't understand why I lost. Because, I'm playing, but I don't have anything planned out in my head, or even put any words to it in my mind really, I just sort of look at what the shapes are doing.

Don't worry so much about winning or losing, about being good or bad at the game, and about understanding everything. Just play for fun, nobody is handing out grades or anything

HermanHiddema wrote:Don't worry so much about winning or losing, about being good or bad at the game, and about understanding everything. Just play for fun, nobody is handing out grades or anything

That's what I was doing, but there's a huge ridiculous hierarchy, and they do hand out grades. I've played on IGS and sometimes it says I'm a 17 kyu and sometimes it says I'm beginner class, but for some reason IGS doesn't start at 30 kyu, anyway it's just an internet site it's probably meaningless anyway.

Post one of your games in the Game Analysis section and ask for comments. I can guarantee you will not get "grotesquely snobby" responses. When it comes to helping out a fellow L19er on their game, the experts here shine.

The ranking hierarchy, for better or worse, is part of the game.

darWIN wrote:That's what I was doing, but there's a huge ridiculous hierarchy, and they do hand out grades. I've played on IGS and sometimes it says I'm a 17 kyu and sometimes it says I'm beginner class, but for some reason IGS doesn't start at 30 kyu, anyway it's just an internet site it's probably meaningless anyway.

If you treat ranks like grades, then it sounds like you are the one who is very competitive. You don't have to think of ranks that way. One nice way to think of ranks is that your rank tells you who else would be fun to play against. It's usually more fun to play against someone who's a similar rank to you

Shawn Ligocki wrote:

darWIN wrote:That's what I was doing, but there's a huge ridiculous hierarchy, and they do hand out grades. I've played on IGS and sometimes it says I'm a 17 kyu and sometimes it says I'm beginner class, but for some reason IGS doesn't start at 30 kyu, anyway it's just an internet site it's probably meaningless anyway.

If you treat ranks like grades, then it sounds like you are the one who is very competitive. You don't have to think of ranks that way. One nice way to think of ranks is that your rank tells you who else would be fun to play against. It's usually more fun to play against someone who's a similar rank to you

There's a difference between being nice and being honest. And you weren't honest. If the ranks were designed that way they wouldn't be numerical according to who is better, they'd be about style of play or something.

Also, people who take themselves so seriously they consider a friendly joke the gravest of insults disgust me. I'm just saying in general board game culture can disgust me. I don't like being told to believe things that aren't true and I don't like taking the ridiculous seriously. I'm sorry I ever liked this game.

darWIN wrote:There's a difference between being nice and being honest. And you weren't honest. If the ranks were designed that way they wouldn't be numerical according to who is better, they'd be about style of play or something.

It is assumed that the game is more fun if both players have some chance of winning, or at least of scoring local victories during the game, which is all tied to skill. Style of play has pretty much zero impact on that. Players with the same style do necessarily have a more fun game. The numbers allow you to easily find an appropriate handicap, so that you can play a wider range of opponents while still making it fun for both players. The fact that IGS has a beginner class, instead of going down to 30k, is entirely based around the fact that ranks at the beginner level are very volatile and that such players can probably have some fun against any other players in the same group.

Winning can add to the fun, but personally I get the most fun out of feeling good about my play. Even if I lose, a single well-executed tesuji that I found can totally make the game for me.