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 Post subject: Re: Is Komi standard play?
Post #41 Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:17 am 
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coconut wrote:
I hate komi. I don't think black has an advantage because it goes first. It's a turn based game, both black and white have equal opportunities to make their marks on the board. In the end it's about cleverness and strategy and not who goes first.

I also hate losing just because of Komi points.

I mean, I consider Komi just for tournaments and not a rule. It is a fairly new rule and it's different in every country. In Hikaru no Go, Sai the Go ghost has no idea what Komi is. He's thousands of years old and he knows how to play Go better than anyone alive, but Komi is new to him.

Kind of like how my dad plays backgammon where you have to get the exact number to bear it off every time, you can't start taking off the fours if you get a five and don't have any pieces on the fives or sixes. You have to get a four. He thinks it's a better way to play, and doesn't care that standard rules are different.

I have more fun with my dad's rules anyway.

My dad isn't playing backgammon at tournaments so it doesn't matter. Just for playing regular games for fun, or standard play, one of the rules, I can't consider Komi a real rule because it is a tournament addition.


Well, the decision of komi was based on the games of top players. Black wins more games than white without komi. Near the komi used today (6.5 under territory scoring, 7.5 under area scoring) it's rather close to 50%. Bots seem to agree-you might want to have a look at this https://senseis.xmp.net/?HistoryOfKomi.
Something cool about the perhaps imperial stone system migrated towards Japanese martial arts is that if you group players 9 dan to 7 dan from the best or second best player in the world (9 dans within one stone (even game (with komi)), 8 dans within two stones (one stone handicap), and 7 dans within three stones (two stone handicap)), you get something similar to Michelin stars :).

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 Post subject: Re: Is Komi standard play?
Post #42 Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:21 pm 
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coconut wrote:
I hate komi. I don't think black has an advantage because it goes first. It's a turn based game, both black and white have equal opportunities to make their marks on the board. In the end it's about cleverness and strategy and not who goes first.


It might help you understand if you considered a simpler "game".

simple chance based game --- A and B take turns flipping a coin. A goes first. As soon as a player gets a heads, the game is over and that player wins. Calculate the probability that A will win the game << hint -- A's chances of winning are GREATER than 50% >>

You want the game to be one of skill? Instead of flipping a coin, make that a task that depends on skill. Assume that the players are equally skilled and at that skill level they have a 50% chance of doing the task on any turn << say they are "shooting hoops" and each puts half of their foul shots into the basket >> What are A's chances of winning this game.

Now a (much) hared problem, but one that might get you to understand komi -- assume that A's skill level is such that 30% of his shots go in the basket. What must B's skill level be to have to be suach that B has an equal chance of winning << hint -- did you immediately see that when A's skill leve was such that 50% went in B would have to be 100%>>


Michael D Novack

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Post #43 Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:03 pm 
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coconut wrote:
I hate komi. I don't think black has an advantage because it goes first.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B komi 0.0
$$ ---
$$ | . |
$$ ---[/go]
Tie ( both pass. )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B komi 0.0
$$ -------
$$ | . . |
$$ -------[/go]
Tie ( both pass. )

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B komi 0.0
$$ --------
$$ | . . . |
$$ | . 1 . |
$$ --------[/go]
What happens if :black: continues ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B komi 0.0
$$ --------
$$ | . 2 4 |
$$ | 3 1 . |
$$ --------[/go]

Is there a :white: strategy that guarantees at least a tie ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B komi 0.0
$$ --------
$$ | . . . |
$$ | . 1 . |
$$ | . . . |
$$ --------[/go]
Seems :black: always kills all, eye-v-no-eye.
Same question:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B komi 0.0
$$ ---------
$$ | . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . |
$$ ----------[/go]
Seems seki.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Komi standard play?
Post #44 Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:08 pm 
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coconut wrote:
I can't consider Komi a real rule because it is a tournament addition.


It is true that komi is taking away some of the game's "purity". But luckily, it's a simple and easy addition to the pure rules to make the game fair.

Chess doesn't have such an easy "fix" and it will suffer forever from being unfair.

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