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Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:55 pm
by oren
Ok who predicted move 8?
First day through lunch...
(;CA[shift_jis]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]GN[ﾚｰﾃｨﾝｸﾞ対局]DT[20140603 [20\:53\]]PB[井山裕太 9段P]
Iyama on Black. Ida on White.
It's always good when the commentator has to say "This is not a mistake in recording"
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:55 am
by Backpack
I´ve never seen move 8 but it appears to be playable.
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:58 am
by Dusk Eagle
I'm going to play this in every game I can at my Go club tonight just to get reactions, even if it isn't appropriate in my circumstances.
P.S. The game can be followed here:
http://mimiaka.meteor.com/live-games
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:37 am
by Uberdude
Nice to see Ida experimenting with an unusual move in a top game. My prior understanding of it is that it's a bit of a trick: if black attaches to try cutting it off (most people's instinct) then white wedges and without the ladder black is unhappy. It's covered in Lee Chang Ho's book 'How to handle hamete'. The easy answer is 3-3: then if white pulls back it's like you answered the normal slide at 3-3 and white pushed into the corner instead of extending on the side, which is usually inferior. Or white can wedge in and it reverts to attaching on the corner and hane. I suppose on this board the point is black wouldn't answer the slide at 3-3 but pincer or attach on the outside, but also if black did 3-3 white would surely extend on the side rather than push in the corner? I guess Ida researched it and liked that fancy 1st line move he got later that threatens a ko or corner life. Tenuki (with ladder threat) was a nice answer by Iyama.
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:39 am
by Knotwilg
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:15 pm
by Pippen
Uberdude wrote: The easy answer is 3-3: then if white pulls back it's like you answered the normal slide at 3-3 and white pushed into the corner instead of extending on the side, which is usually inferior. Or white can wedge in and it reverts to attaching on the corner and hane. I suppose on this board the point is black wouldn't answer the slide at 3-3 but pincer or attach on the outside, but also if black did 3-3 white would surely extend on the side rather than push in the corner? I guess Ida researched it and liked that fancy 1st line move he got later that threatens a ko or corner life. Tenuki (with ladder threat) was a nice answer by Iyama.
It was a light move white wouldn't answer, if e.g. black played at 3-3. Right from the beginning white probably had in mind to use that stone just as a bait trap to extend comfortably on the side while this very stone could still serve for some aji...and that's exactly what happened later in the game.
By the way: It seems the game is on pause. When will it be continued?
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:24 pm
by Dusk Eagle
It's 5:20am in Japan right now, so probably in a few hours from now.
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:59 pm
by Bantari
Backpack wrote: I´ve never seen move 8 but it appears to be playable.
Well... Obviously.
Re: Honinbo Game 3
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:42 pm
by lemmata
Ida's thoughts were published in an interview on Oro. He shows some of the variations he had in mind as well as his planned response to the 3-3 point. So we have it from the horse's mouth.
$$B Ida's move
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Ida's moveWhy did he play this move? He wanted to avoid a common joseki variation that he did not feel like playing.
$$B What he wanted to avoid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B What he wanted to avoidThe usual recommendation for black is to play the 3-3 point. Ida had a planned response to this.
$$B White's pincer at b is no longer threatening because white can play at a and get very nice shape. Black is not as active on the outside as in the usual joseki.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B White's pincer at b is no longer threatening because white can play at a and get very nice shape. Black is not as active on the outside as in the usual joseki.Ida feared that Iyama would tenuki, which he did.
$$B After some forcing moves...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B After some forcing moves...$$B Ladder now works for black
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Ladder now works for black$$W Ida's preferred response to the marked stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Ida's preferred response to the marked stone.
