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Reading Practice

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=10679

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Reading Practice

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:03 am
by logan
White played N3, Black will certainly respond at O2. Does White N3 lead anywhere?

Image

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:13 am
by RBerenguel
logan wrote:White played N3, Black will certainly respond at O2. Does White N3 lead anywhere?

Image
Wrong image? No hotlinking allowed maybe?

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:46 am
by Loons
...B O2, O3, P3, L5, N6?, M5, M6, K8, ... But black gets away from me at some point here.

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:42 am
by DrStraw
After black replies with O2 and white pushes once more, N10 appears to be the move which guarantees catching something. Without a diagram to edit I cannot show the sequence but basically it is:

N10 threatens the 4 stones at P11 so B must defend.
Then a squeeze on the stones at L3 allows W to get stones at K8, L8, M8
Finally W cuts at K10.

After that B does not have enough liberties to play L10 and so must play K9. But the stone at N10 protects and so W wins.

That's a 23 move sequence and I may have missed something, but if someone can create a board it can be put out and checked.

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:12 am
by Uberdude
DrStraw: nice idea, but I wonder about black defending against n10 with m11. If white does the rest of your sequence then m11 ends up in the perfect place to cut at m10 if white blocks at m9. And if white plays m9 as m10 extension then black pushes on through and survives. Maybe white has a clever answer to m11 to maintain miai of capturing the 4 stones or that k10 sequence, need to read more...

Edit. Oh hahaha, even after black m10 cut black has a problem: white ladders the 4 stones and ends with a double atari. Very neat!

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:35 am
by DrStraw
Uberdude wrote:DrStraw: nice idea, but I wonder about black defending against n10 with m11. If white does the rest of your sequence then m11 ends up in the perfect place to cut at m10 if white blocks at m9. And if white plays m9 as m10 extension then black pushes on through and survives. Maybe white has a clever answer to m11 to maintain miai of capturing the 4 stones or that k10 sequence, need to read more...
After M11 if B plays M10 himself there is a threat to capture M11, but does it come to anything? This is too much to read in a forum diagram. If we had been playing the game and thinking about moves for a hour or so before reaching this point it would be easier to see all the possibilities. Having those three W stones on the 8-line certainly has potential.

We need a diagram. Where is the original SGF file? Even if this does not work I think it would be instructive for a lot of people to see it. Most kyu players would not think of N10 and in slightly different situations it definitely could work.

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:06 am
by Uberdude
Using http://hiddema.nl/diagrammer/ here's the basic relevant position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X . . . X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
And I think your answer works, but my m11 is a strong resistance which doesn't quite succeed but does make the full sequence 37 moves :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X . . . X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 7 0 9 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X 8 . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 1 3 5 6 X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X 2 4 . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X 5 7 9 . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X 6 8 0 X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X 2 1 . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 4 X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X 3 . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . 9 O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . 2 . 0 X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X 3 5 8 1 O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X 4 6 7 . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X O O O . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X X X X X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X X O . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . 6 3 . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . 5 4 2 O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X 7 X 1 X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X O O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X X X O . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X O O O . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X X X X X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X X O . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:44 am
by logan
Congratulations, you guys got it.

The game was played between Liu Xing (W) and Zhou Ruiyang (B) during the 2013 Chinese Weiqi League. After Black filled F8, White extended to N3 and Black resigned. It was a memorable, high-level blunder during last year's Weiqi League.

Re: Reading Practice

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:54 am
by DrStraw
And here was I thinking you were asking a question about one of your own games!
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