Page 1 of 1
Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:53 am
by SerDiuK
Hey guys,
I've had several times that I approach my opponent's 4-4 corner with a knight's move and he does a tenuki that I don't need to respond to.
How do I attack that corner then? Every time it happens to me it tends to end badly.
Thanks.
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:00 am
by oca
Hello,
What about trying a
DoubleApproach ?
[Edit]
SerDiuK wrote:...and he does a tenuki that I don't need to respond to.
Are you really sure you don't need to reply ? that looks strange to me to tenuki in that situation doing a gote move...
[/Edit]
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:24 am
by SerDiuK
Oh thanks a lot.
This was the situation. Should I enclose my corner then?
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:47 am
by oca
I suppose the sequence was this one ?
(;GM[1]FF[4]AP[Drago:4.21]SZ[19]CA[UTF-8];B[pd];W[dp];B[cd];W[pp];B[qn];W[ed];B[ec];W[fc];B[dc];W[gd]
;B[cf]
;W[jd]LB[np:a][nq:b][pj:c][pf:d][cn:e][fq:f][jq:g])
At 12, I put everything that went in my mind... my favorite choice is : "Wait for someone stronger advice "
...
well... I'm too shy... I should try to choose one... so I will play 'c' at Q10
because that work well with both the top/right hoshi and the approach move...
but that leave a possible invasion at R8...
https://badukmovies.com/episodes/the-we ... ima-part-1
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:16 am
by skydyr
To me, M17 looks attractive since it aims at undercutting white. It does leave behind a weakness around O17, but only going to N17 or O17 seems more slack against the topside group. A double approach in the bottom right or possibly P6 in the style of old chinese games seems big also, since white tenukied to build the topside position. The left side is smaller than the right for black, because C14 is low. In addition, playing F in the previous post seems like it lets white strengthen the bottom right stone by pincering, and G lets white put pressure by extending from the bottom right as well, fixing his issue there.
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:14 pm
by SerDiuK
Thank you guys, I've done some research through sensei's library and it all makes much more sense.
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:07 pm
by ez4u
Play the double approach. It has the added advantage that as a noob you probably will get the chance to study the
attach-extend joseki in a situation where it actually makes sense.
White probably continues with either
or "a" below. Work on understanding the differences in responding to White's two different choices.
$$Bc Double Approach #1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Double Approach #1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
You can also play the double approach without responding in the upper right...
$$Bc Double Approach #2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Double Approach #2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:47 pm
by oca
oh... ok I think I would have play 5-5 at P5 in response to the double approach. Is it good too or would it be wrong in that case ?
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:17 am
by Uberdude
5-5 in response to double approach is another choice, but is a little bit soft shape-wise. It is good to take sente though. A common mistake is after 5-5 and black 3-3 to block at one of the 3-4 points: unless there is already a white pincer stone to that side the block is often rather heavy. It's usually better to play knight's move press if you continue locally.
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:02 am
by oca
Uberdude wrote:5-5 in response to double approach is another choice, but is a little bit soft shape-wise. It is good to take sente though. A common mistake is after 5-5 and black 3-3 to block at one of the 3-4 points: unless there is already a white pincer stone to that side the block is often rather heavy. It's usually better to play knight's move press if you continue locally.
Thank you Uberdude, I'm just adding quick diagram as that help me to visualize things...
So usually knight's move like
or "a" instead of blocking at "b" or "c"
$$B 2 tenuki
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ . . a . . O b . . |
$$ . . . 3 . c 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------+
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 2 tenuki
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ . . a . . O b . . |
$$ . . . 3 . c 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------+[/go]
Re: Tenuki after approach
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:13 pm
by SerDiuK
[quote="ez4u"]Play the double approach. It has the added advantage that as a noob you probably will get the chance to study the
attach-extend joseki in a situation where it actually makes sense.
White probably continues with either
or "a" below. Work on understanding the differences in responding to White's two different choices.
Cool thanks.