Life In 19x19

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:08 am**

Hi all, new game played with engine max level, no handicap.

Actually I'm proud of me because I lost only by seven half points with no handicap,and since I am a complete beginner it's encouragng. Obv I want to clear my mistakes.

I commented my thinking process, I hope to get some help finding my bad habits as usual. Thank you all!

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:42 am**

Hi,

At

the computer decided to approach your top/left 3-4 stone instead of taking the corner.
at 8, if the computer decided to complete the joseki, that would lead to something like that, where white end the joseki in gote,
so you will have the opportunity to take the corner with

at "a"

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . O . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I suppose the computer "hate" komoku + shimari, which will somehow explains why he played

.
But he doesn't want you to have the last empty corner either...
so he needed to let the joseki unfinished at

, where he think the position is stable enougth for now.... to take the corner...

Now what to do after 8 ? I suppose I will be "a god boy" and just play at "a" to complete the joseki for myself then see what the computer decide to do next...
maybe he would choose to do a sanrensei and leave the two stones as is... maybe he will just continue the joseki [edit]but he would be one move too late now so I suppose he would not do that[/edit]...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , Q . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:05 am**

oca wrote:
At the computer decided to approach your top/left 3-4 stone instead of taking the corner.
at 8, if the computer decided to complete the joseki, that would lead to something like that, where white end the joseki in gote,
so you will have the opportunity to take the corner with at "a"

This may be the answer: so one can say that it's somewhat premature to attack my corner.

Anithing else about the game?

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:16 am**

oca wrote: Now what to do after 8 ? I suppose I will be "a god boy" and just play at "a" to complete the joseki for myself then see what the computer decide to do next...
$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , Q . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , Q . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

An example of the dangers of knowing joseki. Instead think about what the stones are doing. In the joseki where white continues (tenuki is a perfectly valid choice too, not a "joseki deviation" that can be punished) what does he play and why?

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:37 am**

You played pretty well for 20k. Here are some comments! I hope they help you improve.

EDIT: I noticed some weird funky stuff going on with the variations at the end of the game, don't mind that. Hopefully you get the idea anyway. (Must've messed up the sgf somehow o.o)

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:55 am**

Uberdude wrote:
oca wrote: Now what to do after 8 ? I suppose I will be "a god boy" and just play at "a" to complete the joseki for myself then see what the computer decide to do next...
$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , Q . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , Q . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
An example of the dangers of knowing joseki. Instead think about what the stones are doing. In the joseki where white continues (tenuki is a perfectly valid choice too, not a "joseki deviation" that can be punished) what does he play and why?

I think the overall idea of the joseki is white establish himself on top and
black get the corner.

Given that position, I aware of continuation at "a" or "b"

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X Q . . c . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , Q b a . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The first question that went in my mind is "why not just make a 2 spaces extension at c" ?
I think that's because that extension is too close from black corner stones.

The other point is also "is a or b sente ?" if so, white can saftly first stengthen is approching stones first before making the base.

I'm pretty sure this is sente because this is the joseki... and black answer a or b at d...
but I will try to see what happend if he do not

.

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:59 am**

Really very good analysis OtakuViking, many thanks I'll study this evening all your comments and variants, now I just take a look but it's a lot of material very useful for me. Thanks even oca for the opening analysis, it made me meditate about joseki

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:26 am**

Iyama Yuta's game against Lee Sedol in the recent Asian TV Cup is good study material for that top left joseki:

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:14 pm**

Just about move

again, where white didn't take the corner, I think that's funny to see what would happened if black take the last corner himself with

...

Here is what my through about that...

Another thing :

Fllecha wrote:... to attack my corner.

I cannot find the post, but I said the same few month ago...
and somebody (cannot remember who) told me to think more as "approach the corner" not attack...
I liked the distinction between the two.

Posted: **Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:01 pm**

If black takes the last corner, then it is as if white played 5-4 and black approached; nothing unusual there imo.

Life In 19x19

A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)

Re: A close lost game, look for my mistake please :)