Life In 19x19

After around 2 years that play, I decided to buy a new and more serious go set. I would buy it from http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/index.html. Unfortunately my budget is not very high, because of shipping to europe and duty taxes, but I'm interesting in your advices. The only importart things is that I wish I could use this set for many years so I would buy a good compromise between cost, aesthetics and durability.
I thought to divide the discussion into 3 parts so can be useful also for who isn't interested in buying a set.

Goban

There are a lot of discussions in this forum but after I read a lot of it i'm already really confused.
I exclude go board with legs because too much expensive for me. I would buy a go table board around 5-6 cm. But I'm very undecided.
I still have not realized if is better a one-piece board or a multiple-piece board. And also i don't understand wich grain is better.

Go Bowls
I searched different type of bowls and found this link (http://llanoestacado.org/cybercomputing ... /index.htm)
I don't understand what differences are between different types of wood used in bowls. Only aesthetics?
I'd like Karin but I don't find it on Kuroki's site. Maybe is not available. Anyone knows how much it should cost?
I see photos of very aged bowls and seems really dark. Is it caused by the aging of the wood? Or only by a poor preservation?


Go Stones
I would buy clam shell stones standard grade. Only question concerns the size. Until now I used glass stones around 8 mm. What size do you recommend?

I hope I have not forgotten any questions.

shifon wrote:After around 2 years that play, I decided to buy a new and more serious go set. I would buy it from http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/index.html. Unfortunately my budget is not very high, because of shipping to europe and duty taxes, but I'm interesting in your advices. The only importart things is that I wish I could use this set for many years so I would buy a good compromise between cost, aesthetics and durability.
I thought to divide the discussion into 3 parts so can be useful also for who isn't interested in buying a set.

Goban

There are a lot of discussions in this forum but after I read a lot of it i'm already really confused.
I exclude go board with legs because too much expensive for me. I would buy a go table board around 5-6 cm. But I'm very undecided.
I still have not realized if is better a one-piece board or a multiple-piece board. And also i don't understand wich grain is better.

In Japan the most desirable boards are made of genuine kaya wood. There is another kind of board made from spruce wood which is called shin kaya in Japan. This is not really any kind of kaya. The proper translation of shin kaya would be imitation kaya. Shin kaya boards have some resemblance to real kaya but the color and the grain are considered coarse. Genuine kaya boards are the only ones where type of grain is an issue. What you want to buy is a board with masame, or straight, grain, and most boards for table top use are made this way. Well made multi-piece boards have a playing surface that is almost indistinguishable from single piece boards but multi-piece boards are a lot less expensive than single piece boards. As for durability, I have a genuine kaya multi-piece table top board, 6 cm thick, that I bought in Japan around 50 years ago and it still has a beautiful color and surface and has not warped or cracked. Ask Kuroki Goishiten to email you a photograph of any board you are interested in, same for bowls.

Go Bowls
I searched different type of bowls and found this link (http://llanoestacado.org/cybercomputing ... /index.htm)
I don't understand what differences are between different types of wood used in bowls. Only aesthetics?
I'd like Karin but I don't find it on Kuroki's site. Maybe is not available. Anyone knows how much it should cost?
I see photos of very aged bowls and seems really dark. Is it caused by the aging of the wood? Or only by a poor preservation?

The link you posted shows photographs mostly from the Kuroki website. I know that karin wood is becoming scarce and Kuroki does not list karin bowls on their website. They may still have some in stock so you could ask them. I bought a pair of kusu bowls from them which are quite beautiful and less expensive than karin. In the past the only woods for go bowls that were commonly found were mulberry, keyaki, karin, cherry, and chestnut. Kuroki has several less common woods which look quite attractive. In the past, karin was sometimes not preferered because it is super hard and the stones make a metalic clink when dropped into the bowl, which some people don't like. Keyaki starts out a very light color but over time it darkens beautifully to a medium tan-brown color. In Japan people try to match the appearance of the bowls with the board. You could ask Kuroki what bowls they recommend within your price range for the board you will buy. In the end it is probably a matter of aesthetics.


Go Stones
I would buy clam shell stones standard grade. Only question concerns the size. Until now I used glass stones around 8 mm. What size do you recommend?

The size of stone is also a matter of your preference. Some people like really thick stones, others prefer less thick. In Japan there is a feeling that the thickness of the stones should be related to the thickness of the board. Thicker stones go with thicker boards. Also, thinner stones are more likely to chip at the edge. Personally I think 8mm or thicker is good. I find 8mm, 8.4mm, 8.8mm and 9.2mm all are easy to handle and work well with the thickness of board you plan to buy.

I hope I have not forgotten any questions.

See my comments in the quote above. Most important thing is to buy things that please you. It doesn't make sense to think of this level of go equipment as an investment which will grow in value. You will get beautifully crafted things but the value will be in the pleasure you get from using them.

Board

A kaya table board will really cost you, there is just no way around it unless you are very fortunate using eBay. To be honest, nicer stones are better enjoyed in nicer bowls and on a nicer board. But here's some advice from a more budget-sensitive perspective nonetheless:

GoGameGuru (GGG) is an extremely reliable company that exports Go equipment out of South Korea. They sell a beautiful single-piece board made from Alaskan Spruce. It is a bit paler than kaya but you are likely to get a nicer cut for about half the price. I own two of these boards and they are very attractive although the wood is relatively light and soft.

https://shop.gogameguru.com/shin-kaya-go-board-24/

Given the rarity of kaya wood, the Japanese also make Go boards from Katsura. Katsura eventually became rare as well but just like there is "shin kaya" (yew or spruce) there is also "shin katsura" or agathis. The grain of agathis can be very pronounced so sometimes the playing surface of an agathis board is painted a shade of yellow similar to the color of kaya. GGG sells a board like, about 6cm thick, for a very reasonable price. I have one and it is probably my favorite board.

https://shop.gogameguru.com/agathis-go-board-24/

Yellow Mountain Imports (YMI) sells a Tibetan Yew board in similar dimensions for slightly less money than GGG's Alaskan Spruce board. The color is very yellow, which some find appealing and others find off-putting. It is more similar in weight and hardness to kaya. YMI also sells a board made from bamboo, which may or may not appeal to your taste. It is extremely hard and heavy but relatively inexpensive. YMI also sells boards made from rosewood in more of a Chinese style, which I cannot recommend one way or the other as I do not own any.

http://stores.ebay.com/Yellow-Mountain- ... ub=7193444

Bowls

If you want so nice but affordable goke, I'd recommend looking at the rose keyaki ones offered by Kiseido.

GG offers a more affordable ash set of very nice quality:

https://shop.gogameguru.com/ash-go-bowls-mahogany-15/

Stones

On this score, I cannot recommend GGG. They use a Chinese shell that looks very little like either hyuga or Mexican shell. Best to stick with Kuroki Goishi here or keep an eye on eBay.

Thirty years ago there weren't so many choices. We bought what we could afford from two or three sources
Here is my advice: your first nice set should be decided by your budget, not your long term expectations. You will buy other, far better, go equipment as the opportunities arise and your skills mature. Kuroki Go Ishi has an outlet section that has superb bargains. Get a package set the fits your budget.

However, there is satisfaction and community in dealing with your local gaming store and having these discussions about this stuff with the folks with whom you play go. You do not need shell stones or a kaya board to enjoy go. These things will not make you a better player and they are expensive.

You can upgrade to fine Japanese glass stones, chestnut or nice plastic bowls and a slotted 1" board for 25% of what you may spend on really good stuff. Kuroki even sells plastic bowls and folding boards along with shell stones: http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... a-ori.html
A fine beginners set:
http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... set07.html

Thanks very much!! At the end I decided to buy this (http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... aya20.html) and today has arrived. But now I have some question.

Should I clean goban, goke and clamshell stones before use?

The bowls have a very strong and unpleasant smell. Should I leave it open a few days before putting in the stones?

I have read that it's not a good idea to keep the stones for a long time in the go bowls. Should I use a cloth inside to avoid that stones are in contact with the surface of go bowls?

I'm going to use the goban often (at least 2-3 times a week) but I thought to put it in a closed cabinet to avoid dust and light when i'm not using it. Is a bad idea?

Inside the cabinet can store goban and bowls in boxes (wood or carton) or not?

Sorry if my questions seem stupid but I've never had a go set like this and I haven't real person to ask.

shifon wrote:Should I clean goban, goke and clamshell stones before use?

Hi shifon,

The Kuroki equipment should've arrived in mint condition.
But if you notice any small amount of dust, of course
you can do some gentle cleaning first.

All the Kuroki shell stones arrived in mint, waxed condition
for me: no cleaning necessary, all ready for use.

If you notice a thin layer of oily substance on the
slate stones, you can wash them in gentle soap first.

shifon wrote:The bowls have a very strong and unpleasant smell. Should I leave it open a few days before putting in the stones?

Seems strange. Did you email and ask Mr. Kuroki about this ?

shifon wrote:Should I use a cloth inside to avoid that stones are in contact with the surface of go bowls?

( I like to cut out a round piece of soft fabric or felt and
put it at the bottom of each bowl, to soften the impact of
the stones against the wood. )

shifon wrote:I thought to put it in a closed cabinet to avoid dust and light when i'm not using it. Is a bad idea?

No problem. Unless it's very harsh direct sunlight,
all the wood should be OK. Just avoid very strong, direct sunlight.

shifon wrote:Inside the cabinet can store goban and bowls in boxes (wood or carton) or not?

No problem. You are taking very good care of your Kuroki equipment.
Sounds like it'll last a very long time in your hands. Enjoy.

shifon wrote:Thanks very much!! At the end I decided to buy this (http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... aya20.html) and today has arrived. But now I have some question.





I have read that it's not a good idea to keep the stones for a long time in the go bowls. Should I use a cloth inside to avoid that stones are in contact with the surface of go bowls?

I also have read that kuri (chestnut) bowls can stain the surface of shell stones. I have not seen like that about karin bowls. You should put a small soft cloth or a pad on the bottom inside the bowl for the shell stones to absorb the shock when stones are dropped into the bowl, to protect the shell stones from chipping. I think this is particularly important for karin bowls because the wood is extremely hard.

Hello Shifon,
I think you purchased a truely magnificent board. It will give you years of pleasure, compliments.