Life In 19x19

I messed up the opening of this game badly. But I still tried to come back. In the end I didn't manage but I wonder: was there something I could have done?

Here is the game (comments are merely greetings in Hungarian, sorry for that)

- first mistake IMO. This should have been at K-16 (or around that)
- second mistake. I panicked about my first mistake and quickly committed a second one. This should have been at Q-10 or Q-11 I think
- was probably too slow. I didn't want to die there and considering my already bad situation I didn't want to leave weak groups around. Still, probably I could have managed without
- I don't like . I feared that black would get a big framework too easily. Maybe I should have attacked at R-8 or extended around C-10?
- ... omg, just omg
- judging from the continuation, this should have been better one place lower, at E-3.
- rest is me trying to do something resulting in some success, but not enough. Btw is :w224: necessary?

Not strong enough to comment, sorry. I'm just interested about your comments in the opening:
- You describe moves 6 and 8 as mistakes. Why do you think those are mistakes (especially 6)?

At a quick glance, the following moves stand out:

- - I would play N15 right away (avoid the atari and threaten to cut off the upper black group). The empty triangle at looks very inefficient.
- allows black to connect underneath. If you could prevent that you'll have more initiative.
- I would connect at D4 and make a wall. Imagine if the C7 stones were not connected underneath (as you could have prevented before) - this would now give you a very powerful position.
- This feels really painful. Why not just block at E3? Even if C3/C4 get eaten (which is IMHO not going to happen) the resulting position would be IMHO still better than in the game.

Amelia wrote:Not strong enough to comment, sorry. I'm just interested about your comments in the opening:
- You describe moves 6 and 8 as mistakes. Why do you think those are mistakes (especially 6)?

I'm not strong enough to be able to tell an exact reason. This is what I always see when black does the orthodox fuseki(http://senseis.xmp.net/?OrthodoxFuseki) and I can agree with reasoning that if black gets the star point, it creates a really nice framework - so white should prevent.


Is "going fishing when my house is on fire" - as Nick Sibicky would say. I must not tenuki there (or so I think).

schawipp wrote:At a quick glance, the following moves stand out:

- - I would play N15 right away (avoid the atari and threaten to cut off the upper black group). The empty triangle at looks very inefficient.
- allows black to connect underneath. If you could prevent that you'll have more initiative.
- I would connect at D4 and make a wall. Imagine if the C7 stones were not connected underneath (as you could have prevented before) - this would now give you a very powerful position.
- This feels really painful. Why not just block at E3? Even if C3/C4 get eaten (which is IMHO not going to happen) the resulting position would be IMHO still better than in the game.

Thx for your suggestions! The threatening to cut at N-15 didn't even occur to me. At the bottom left I saw the "broken shape" as Ed would say but I was too obsessed with the corner. (The same for E-3)

I don't understand your harsh comments about perfectly viable moves, while you are silent about really bad moves.

34-38 are awful. Especially 38.

46 exposes the previous moves as learned, but not well understood. You can play hane and prevent the connection, that is the reason for the shapes you played before. This makes a huge difference in the game.

52 probably better at D4, but the mistake is 54. You can't let Black split you here without at least putting a stone in the way.

If is a mistake, it can't be a very big one, here are three pro games with that exact position :

https://badukmovies.com/pro_games/58761 ... jun?move=6
https://badukmovies.com/pro_games/38514 ... o-u?move=6
https://badukmovies.com/pro_games/38224 ... hao?move=6

tapir wrote:I don't understand your harsh comments about perfectly viable moves, while you are silent about really bad moves.

34-38 are awful. Especially 38.

46 exposes the previous moves as learned, but not well understood. You can play hane and prevent the connection, that is the reason for the shapes you played before. This makes a huge difference in the game.

52 probably better at D4, but the mistake is 54. You can't let Black split you here without at least putting a stone in the way.

Wow, great insight!
As you wrote I saw the moves prior to 46 somewhere and I think they create good shape, but I had no idea how to use them.
Edit: btw, which hane, B11 (or B9)?
I'm silent about my really bad moves because I don't know which ones they are .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B The marked white stone ends in a sweet spot.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . b X 6 O 3 X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 8 7 5 a . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B More likely result in the game - Black tries to live inside.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O 4 X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

56 is trying to find some success? Looks like trying to lose to me... What on earth was going through your mind when you played that?! You wanted to defend the cut? But it's a cut on the 2nd line: surely a 5k knows that can be captured by atari towards the edge. You didn't want to let white hane at e2 in sente? So play e2. Or even e3.

I've added a few comments in addition to what was said before:

skydyr wrote:I've added a few comments in addition to what was said before:

Thanks for your comments!