Life In 19x19

Lately when being approached in the corner, I tend to follow up the joseki by playing at #7. It often ends up with the opponent pushing from behind, letting me build up a wall. (While they do the same.) It feels like a good move when I play it, but I have my doubts. What do you think? It it bad to play like this so early in the game? ('Play away from strength') Is the wall worth the thickness the opponent is building on the other side? How far should I let it go? It's hard for me to measure the success rate of the move. It works great against bots, but most human opponents I've played lately are more aggressive after approach, rather than following this joseki.

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Well, if you are referring to then it definitely is not joseki. It is better to press at Q12 first and then play this move. But even that would be to early in the fuseki and should not be considered before the midgame.

For whats its worth, move 9 is a favorite of mine without move 7 (avoiding the contact play) but I don't play it until a little later once I'm ready to develop my central control. If my opponent doesn't respond then I'll follow-up with p11.

directly is also not so good, as when playing the small knight's move, black says he wants territory and safety, not influence and potential.

As mentioned, it's too early to play this move, as white's group has potential weaknesses that black may want to exploit later. If black gets a group on the right, for example, R9 is sente against the white group, but after the game moves, that group is rock solid. In addition, if you look at the board, it's pretty clear that white has been developing faster than black, and has already limited black's potential with above, although black has sente. White could also have skipped 10 to approach in the top left, for example, without too much trouble. Starting as DrStraw suggested with Q12 is viable, but as he mentioned, it's better held off until later, in case black decides that a different approach is called for instead.

I would recommend a couple things. First off, if you have the sanrensei formation, don't play , as it's inconsistent with the first 3 stones to play low and territorially, and just taking territory directly is slow. Playing O16 instead is fine, and leads to better opportunities to jump ahead in the center:

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Here, black could play at A instead, ceding the corner for the center, or consider A or even B as a followup after (not necessarily immediately after... the left seems bigger). Pincering instead of is also pretty normal.

Secondly, once is played and white responds with the slide, black can tenuki and come back to this later (maybe he'll want to pincer instead of take the corner) or black can exchange for and then take sente to play on the left and expand his moyo potential that way.

OK.

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[go]$$c Not joseki. Black is overconcentrated.
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[go]$$c Not joseki, either.
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[go]$$c Joseki
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[go]$$c Also joseki
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[go]$$c Black follow-up
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As DrStraw indicates, and are how Black normally follows up in the top right.

Thanks for all the advice! I will avoid making a habit of 7 then.

First off, if you have the sanrensei formation, don't play , as it's inconsistent with the first 3 stones to play low and territorially, and just taking territory directly is slow.

Actually, I more usually play the low Chinese opening. Would that make a difference in how I should respond to approaches?

Edit: Wow, lots of good play ideas there, Bill. Thanks!

Inkwolf wrote:Would that make a difference in how I should respond to approaches?

Hi Inkwolf,

Yea, lots of nice replies and ideas to play with.

But at the same time, it's still important to know you don't lose the game with your . (Far from it, actually.)
You lose your games later, in other contact fights, in other areas, especially in the local tactics.
Please see also this thread, and this thread.

Inkwolf wrote:Lately when being approached in the corner, I tend to follow up the joseki by playing at #7. It often ends up with the opponent pushing from behind, letting me build up a wall. (While they do the same.) It feels like a good move when I play it, but I have my doubts. What do you think? It it bad to play like this so early in the game? ('Play away from strength') Is the wall worth the thickness the opponent is building on the other side? How far should I let it go? It's hard for me to measure the success rate of the move. It works great against bots, but most human opponents I've played lately are more aggressive after approach, rather than following this joseki.

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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 2 . . |
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[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
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To go a little off topic (though Bill already touched on it). In SmartGo Kifu at the moment there are 990 games that start with play through below. How many different ways have pros answered 1? Eighteen. How many times have pros continued with 2 below? None. The easiest and possibly most productive way to erase the attachment at 7 above from your games is to eliminate .

Without the marked stone on the board, is the most common response to by a large margin. With the marked stone on the board, is too passive. The top five alternatives in terms of the frequency with which they have appeared are marked 'a' through 'e' below. Try something new!

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ez4u wrote: To go a little off topic (though Bill already touched on it). In SmartGo Kifu at the moment there are 990 games that start with play through below. How many different ways have pros answered 1? Eighteen. How many times have pros continued with 2 below? None. The easiest and possibly most productive way to erase the attachment at 7 above from your games is to eliminate .

{snip}

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[go]$$Wc
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Credit where credit is due. skydyr pointed out that is not so good.