Life In 19x19

Dear All

I am 30++ years old and am interested in learning Go. Way back in 2008, I watched Hikaru no Go and was interested in learning. Alas, real life got in the way and despite my best intentions, I never got around to learning it.

Since this forum has so many Go enthusiasts, I thought it would be great to ask anyone of you to share your story of learning Go when you were older. i.e. 30++. With work commitments, family and real life constraints, it would be nice to see how you managed to sustain your interest in Go and improved your skills.

More specifically, I would be interested to know:

1. What made you interested in the Go?
2. How much time you spent daily on Go?
3. How long did it take to improve on your ranking?
4. Did you face any major roadblocks along the way and how did you surmount it?
5. Any interesting stories or experiences to share about taking up Go at a more 'mature' age.
6. Whether you took up lessons, e.g. via Internet or joined a Go club nearby.

Thanks and hope to hear some interesting and motivational stories from you all.

Go is such a challenging game and I'm don't know whether I'm cut out for it, especially at an 'older' age. Memory's not what it used to be.

Hi agewisdom,

Welcome.

EdLee wrote:Welcome.

Thanks! Looking forward to you sharing your story.

I want to start learning, but I since I don't have a Divine Go God guiding me, I'm sure it'll be tough...

I play it because I enjoy it and I enjoy the company of the people I play against regularly in real life. I don't think I'd be still doing it if I didn't like the people I met through it. That and kids are a bit older now (5 and 8) so it's easier to steal a half hour here and there. Roadblocks, eh, I've a few chronic illnesses they make doing most things harder so not really age related.

Boidhre wrote:I play it because I enjoy it and I enjoy the company of the people I play against regularly in real life. I don't think I'd be still doing it if I didn't like the people I met through it. That and kids are a bit older now (5 and 8) so it's easier to steal a half hour here and there. Roadblocks, eh, I've a few chronic illnesses they make doing most things harder so not really age related.

I see. Thanks for sharing. Glad you manage to sustain your interest.

I started learning just before I hit 30, at the same time as our 1st daughter was born - so I've not had whole weekends to 'waste' on hobbies for a long time . I have improved since then, not at a tremendous speed but fairly constantly when I've been using what free time (evenings) I get on Go.

'handy hints'? Get some problem books you can read when you have a free moment (train, on the loo, evenings, lunch break). Get a smart phone and play correspondence Go (e.g. I play on DGS connecting via my phone), I also use my phone for doing problems (or reviewing sgf files which I don't do enough of). On the same sort of idea, I only started playing blitz Go on KGS when I didn't have time for longer games. Also, work on making the most efficient use of your time that you have.

Other than that, be realistic in your goals. Every bit of improvement is a step forward but you won't improve at the same rate as someone who can spend all their time on Go (but that's not the sort of life I'd want at my age anyway).

1. What made you interested in the Go? Hikaru no Go, like you. At around 40-42, I think.

2. How much time you spent daily on Go? I live alone, so I was free to do as I liked. For about 6 months, I obsessively played and studied go in my free time, playing online and against computer programs. I'm not sure how much time per day.

3. How long did it take to improve on your ranking? In that 6 months, I got to about 12k. Getting to 18k was pretty easy, after that it took work. Now I spend much less time (and spent a couple of years not playing much at all) and am at 10k. (KGS)

4. Did you face any major roadblocks along the way and how did you surmount it? Just loss of enthusiasm and being too busy with other projects. Lately I am back to enjoying Go again.

5. Any interesting stories or experiences to share about taking up Go at a more 'mature' age. Since I work at a library, I started a go club there for people to learn, and have had kids coming to learn to play for several years now. Early on, a retired man who used to help run the former local chess club joined, too. He knew how to play Go, but had never had the opportunity to play against anybody but the computer. It was a great motivator to have another adult who knew how to play. When we first met, he had to give me 6 handicap stones. Toward the end, I was starting to beat him in even games. Sadly, he died a couple of years ago. The week after he died, one of those flat black glass marbles mysteriously dropped out of a book I was checking in at the library circulation desk. I figure that was the closest Neil could come to sending me a go stone as a farewell remembrance. Anyway, it was a friendship I probably would never have had without Go. There are many other good people who I met through the club, who I would never have spent time with otherwise, so the Go club has made an impact on my life. If you can get involved with a group at all, I recommend it.

6. Whether you took up lessons, e.g. via Internet or joined a Go club nearby. I played on KGS, took advantage of free lectures there, pestered people on this forums for advice, read books, did problems on Goproblems.com etc. I found Janice Kim's book series on learning Go to be very easy to understand and useful.

Thanks Inkwolf and CnP for taking the time to share your Go experience.

Wow, Inkwolf, that's quite an accomplishment to almost reach a single digit kyu so fast. Makes me feel more optimistic that I can pick up this game and see some modest improvement, if I put in the effort!

I'm also starting to realize that having a Go friend or rival, is also a great motivating factor to improve in the game. Mirrors Hikaru vs. Akira quite well...

Quite motivating to realize that one can pick up Go even at an older age despite being bogged down by real life unlike the young uns'...

1. What made you interested in the Go?
I was shown the game in my early 20s - I liked it quite a bit then but couldn't find anyone to play against. It only took me 15 years to look on the internet. I am a little slow at times.

2. How much time you spent daily on Go?
Too much/not enough. I try to play at least one game each night and read/watch what I can at other times. Maybe 1-1.5 hours when I do have time. More like 1 hour or less on average.

3. How long did it take to improve on your ranking?
I got to 10k in a year of serious play and study. I'm almost at 2 years now and I'm at 6k.

4. Did you face any major roadblocks along the way and how did you surmount it?
Not roadblocks but the usual factors competing for time and attention: kids, work, life etc. I don't have any other hobbies though so I try to make time for go. In part I play because it is something I can pick up and put down at any time.

5. Any interesting stories or experiences to share about taking up Go at a more 'mature' age.
Watching my 4 year old teach his 70+ year old grandparents to play was a unique experience.

6. Whether you took up lessons, e.g. via Internet or joined a Go club nearby.
No - I played sporadically in a local club but haven't been able to find a new one since moving. I'd like to get a teacher, but finding a fixed time each week to dedicate to a lesson has proven difficult.

S2W wrote:3. How long did it take to improve on your ranking?
I got to 10k in a year of serious play and study. I'm almost at 2 years now and I'm at 6k.

Wow, that's quite motivational! Thanks for sharing! You must have an aptitude for the game.

Go is such a challenging game and I'm don't know whether I'm cut out for it, especially at an 'older' age.

You are.

Honestly, if you have the finances (and time) for it, start and get a go teacher. You will learn better, progress faster, and not run into the same roadblocks that other people have run into (that are mostly self taught).

There is a guy at our club in his late 40s that first started maybe a year ago. I convinced him to take lessons with a qualified pro (note the emphasis on that). After six months we've seen dramatic improvement in his play. I'm pretty sure in another years time he will be in the 1-5k range.

But he is also playing daily, looking at lectures, and doing go problems.

If you're just going to be playing once every so often just to enjoy the game it's not necessary. But if you have hopes and goals in mind, i'd say the earlier you start getting lessons, the better. You will not run into the problems that most self taught players have.

often wrote:Honestly, if you have the finances (and time) for it, start and get a go teacher. You will learn better, progress faster, and not run into the same roadblocks that other people have run into (that are mostly self taught).

If you're just going to be playing once every so often just to enjoy the game it's not necessary. But if you have hopes and goals in mind, i'd say the earlier you start getting lessons, the better. You will not run into the problems that most self taught players have.

Thanks for the sound advice. I'm definitely keeping this at the back of my mind, especially if I hit a roadblock. Most of the times, I do like to self study. However, I do understand your advice. Sometimes, it's easy to pick up very bad habits and it's difficult to 'unlearn' these when trying to improve at higher levels. As with Go, so it's the same with a lot of other skills.

agewisdom wrote:

often wrote:Honestly, if you have the finances (and time) for it, start and get a go teacher. You will learn better, progress faster, and not run into the same roadblocks that other people have run into (that are mostly self taught).

If you're just going to be playing once every so often just to enjoy the game it's not necessary. But if you have hopes and goals in mind, i'd say the earlier you start getting lessons, the better. You will not run into the problems that most self taught players have.

Thanks for the sound advice. I'm definitely keeping this at the back of my mind, especially if I hit a roadblock. Most of the times, I do like to self study. However, I do understand your advice. Sometimes, it's easy to pick up very bad habits and it's difficult to 'unlearn' these when trying to improve at higher levels. As with Go, so it's the same with a lot of other skills.

In case you were wondering about how "hard" it is to unlearn bad habits.

When i started lessons, i asked my teacher how long it would take to unlearn most of the bad habits.
The response was "2 years"
And she was right.

and i still have bad habits from when i first started go that we're fixing


another way of thinking about what you should do is what i said for this other guy:

play a lot

once you get to a certain level (lets say 9k) ask yourself what you would like to achieve.

if you want to be a high dan, look into lessons (but know that it will take a long time).

if you want to become a dan, ask your self in what time frame you want to see it. anything less than 3 years i would suggest a teacher. anything more you might be able to do without a teacher.

if you want to get just a middle level kyu, you can do that just by playing more and self study. time frame matters, but not as much.

"looking to improve" is a vague question to be honest. you need to have at least some sort of goal.

it might sound like a strange disjoint that i say "you can do it without a teacher" but heavily recommend getting a teacher. but think of it like this, of course you can get better on your own, but it'll be much harder, take a longer time, and be very VERY confusing on your own. if you want to spare yourself that problem, just get a teacher.

I appreciate the advice and feel very welcome here.

Just a couple of questions:
1. Could you give an example of what sort of 'bad habits' are? And how they arose? I'm assuming they arose naturally over time as you played many games of Go without an instructor reviewing the game?

2. What sort of activities would be safe, to minimise these bad habits? I'm thinking of doing Go problems. Still a bit blur but probably start with the books problems such as Graded Go problems for beginners. These are probably NON hazardous, right?

As for instructors or lessons, I most probably will take up your advice. Of course, all these require a commitment of time. So that's why I want to play the game a bit get a feel of it and hopefully fall in love with it. I think that way, I would benefit more from professional instruction.

Otherwise, it might actually be detrimental if I suddenly feel too much pressure over it, when joining classes and feeling lost. Especially since I have so little knowledge about the game. I'd like to have some basic knowledge and familiarity first.

1. Could you give an example of what sort of 'bad habits' are? And how they arose? I'm assuming they arose naturally over time as you played many games of Go without an instructor reviewing the game?

Proper shape is a good example but hard to explain. There are certain shapes that are efficient but not something you might automatically think to play. They are necessary to understand to get better.
The closest analogue might be proper golfing form. If you learned it on your own you might be comfortable swinging a certain way but it might hinder you in the long run if you want to hit further.

Concepts in terms of where to play is another example. Two easy ones that people say but don't understand are "play away from thickness" and "play at the border of territory". This is because people don't know or think of what is thickness, and people also don't know what is invadable.

Another easy one is the concept of attack/defense/fighting. People play and typically like to avoid conflict in go. This is bad. if you don't have it put in you to want to fight and attack groups, you're going to be limiting yourself and what you can do in the long run.

2. What sort of activities would be safe, to minimise these bad habits? I'm thinking of doing Go problems. Still a bit blur but probably start with the books problems such as Graded Go problems for beginners. These are probably NON hazardous, right?

Do go problems. Memorize joseki.
but approach it by doing the easy ones. by easy i mean, stuff that takes 5-10 seconds to solve. do 100 of them, and when you're finished, do them again. keep doing them until you don't even have to take time to solve it. then do another 100. repeat.

also, play games
but play slow games. sit and think about what moves you should play.
but don't beat yourself up about it. when you play, think about the situation and play what you think is the best move for that situation.