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It seems that if you kill a large group you should win.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:06 pm
by Joelnelsonb
It just seems to me that if you don't lose any large groups yourself and kill a large one off, you ought to be able to bring home the victory. I guess this game is a good example of putting too much into an attack and allowing your opponent adequate compensation.
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6200
Re: It seems that if you kill a large group you should win.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:18 pm
by skydyr
Frankly, I'm surprised black let the M7 group connect and live.
Re: It seems that if you kill a large group you should win.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:42 pm
by Bill Spight
Check out the game between Hayashi Gembi and Okunuki Chisaku on this page.
viewtopic.php?p=60253#p60253
Re: It seems that if you kill a large group you should win.
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:49 pm
by Bill Spight
A few comments on the early middle game.
(;AP[GOWrite:2.3.46]SZ[19]CA[ISO8859-1]GM[1]ST[0]FF[4]VW[]PM[2]RE[W+14.5]PC[OGS\: http\://online-go.com/game/2432641]WR[13k]GN[ ]HA[0]PB[Saint Ravitt]RU[chinese]KM[7.5]DT[2015-07-16]CP[online-go.com]C[Rene_Char\: Hi gg
Saint Ravitt\: hi ,mtbpw
*** Go to B 57.]BR[14k]FG[259:]PW[Rene_Char]
;B[pc]
;W[dc]
;B[qp]
;W[dq]
;B[do]
;W[co]
;B[dp]
;W[cp]
;B[eq]
;W[dr]
;B[dm]
;W[er]
;B[fq]
;W[pq]
;B[pp]
;W[qq]
;B[oq]
;W[or]
;B[nq]
;W[nr]
;B[fr]
;W[jp]
;B[mp]
;W[gp]
;B[en]
;W[lq]
;B[mq]
;W[mr]
;B[rq]
;W[rr]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[cf]
;W[cd]
;B[dg]
;W[ch]
;B[dh]
;W[ci]
;B[dj]
;W[cg]
;B[ec]
;W[bf]
;B[df]
;W[qd]
;B[pd]
;W[qc]
;B[pe]
;W[qe]
;B[jc]
;W[fc]
;B[eb]
;W[fb]
;B[ed]
;W[fd]
;B[fe]
;W[hd]
(
;B[he]C[*** See variation.]
;W[id]
;B[ie]C[*** Pushing White out is not good, as a rule.]
;C[*** This play strengthens White and weakens Black.]W[jd]
;B[kc]
;W[kd]
(
;B[mc]C[*** Leaves a weakness behind. See variation.]
;C[*** White has elbow room. ]W[kf]
(
;B[pg]C[*** See variations.]
;C[*** Small. Black has chances.]W[ic]
(
;B[ia]C[*** Not good. Misclick? See variation.]
;C[*** White counterattacks.]W[jb]
;B[kb]
;W[ib]
;B[ja]
;W[ha]
;B[ka]
;C[*** Ouch! There is that weakness.]W[lc]
;B[lb]
;W[md]
;B[nc]
;W[ld]
;B[ma]
;W[pb]
;B[ob]
;W[pa]
;B[oa]
;C[*** Black's line of play beginning with \:B 67 has been a failure. White has forced Black to make small life while securing the corner and stregthening the WHite group on the side.]W[rb]
;B[qf]C[*** Not big now that both White's group and Black's group are secure. Better to extend on the side.
End of comments.]
;W[qk]
;B[qm]
;W[qh]
;B[rf]
;W[re]
;B[ph]
;W[pi]
;B[oi]
;W[pj]
;B[oj]
;W[ok]
;B[nh]
;W[of]
;B[pf]
;W[mf]
;B[nk]
;W[ol]
;B[nl]
;W[oo]
;B[on]
;W[no]
;B[mo]
;W[nn]
;B[om]
;W[nm]
;B[op]
;W[po]
;B[qn]
;W[qo]
;B[ro]
;W[mm]
;B[si]
;W[sg]
;B[rg]
;W[rh]
;B[sh]
;W[ri]
;B[sj]
;W[rj]
;B[sk]
;W[rk]
;B[sl]
;W[rl]
;B[sf]
;W[rm]
;B[rn]
;W[sm]
;B[sg]
;W[sq]
;B[rp]
;W[pm]
;B[pn]
;W[ql]
;B[pl]
;W[pk]
;B[ln]
;W[lm]
;B[kn]
;W[in]
;B[km]
;W[ll]
;B[kl]
;W[lk]
;B[jk]
;W[mj]
;B[nj]
;W[mh]
;B[ng]
;W[mg]
;B[nf]
;W[ne]
;B[oe]
;W[kj]
;B[jj]
;W[di]
;B[ei]
;W[ej]
;B[fj]
;W[ek]
;B[fi]
;W[dl]
;B[gm]
;W[fm]
;B[fn]
;W[fl]
;B[hn]
;W[ho]
;B[im]
;W[hr]
;B[gl]
;W[ig]
;B[jg]
;W[jf]
;B[if]
;W[jh]
;B[hg]
;W[ih]
;B[hh]
;W[ii]
;B[hj]
;W[hi]
;B[gi]
;W[ij]
;B[hk]
;W[cm]
;B[fk]
;W[el]
;B[cl]
;W[ck]
;B[cn]
;W[bl]
;B[bm]
;W[bn]
;B[dn]
;W[am]
;B[io]
;W[ip]
;B[jo]
;W[db]
;B[ga]
;W[hb]
;B[fa]
;W[gb]
;B[ea]
;W[ge]
;B[gf]
;W[gd]
;B[ji]
;W[ki]
;B[ff]
;W[dd]
;B[ra]
;W[qb]
;B[sb]
;W[sc]
;B[sd]
;W[sa]
;B[ik]
;W[kg]
;B[sb]
;W[go]
;B[gn]
;W[sa]
;B[kh]
;W[rd]
;B[sb]
;W[se]
;B[jg]
;W[lh]
;B[jh]
;W[fp]
;B[ep]
;W[ko]
;B[jn]
;W[lp]
;B[kk]
;W[mk]
;B[mi]
;W[li]
;B[lf]
;W[je]
;B[ni]
;W[lo]
;B[mn]
;W[gq]
;B[es]
;W[cs]
;B[sp]
;W[sr]
;B[fs]
;W[hs]
;B[ds]
;W[cq]
;B[fo]
;W[nd]
;B[gr]
;W[iq]
;B[ml]
;W[lj]
;B[od]
;W[da]
;B[ee]
;W[tt]
;B[tt]
;W[tt]
;B[gs]
;W[qr]
;B[em]
;W[np]
;B[tt]
;C[Saint Ravitt\: well played
Rene_Char\: thank you
Rene_Char\: You too
Saint Ravitt\: thanks]W[tt]
)
(
;B[qf]C[*** Big. ]
)
)
(
;B[qf]C[*** Better locally. Hems White in in the corner.]
)
(
;B[pj]C[*** The last big point. Works with the Black wall.]
)
)
(
;B[lc]C[*** Stronger.]
)
)
(
;B[je]C[*** This makes a nice framework on the top side while attacking White. It is bigger and more secure than building a framework in the center.]
)
)
Re: It seems that if you kill a large group you should win.
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:21 am
by Ethelor
To be fair, by move 143 my estimation of the point count says white is leading by roughly 10 points. (To be fair, black's thickness around D14 is probably worth at least that so the game is still relatively even.)
I think the big mistake is one of direction by pushing M7 into his own stones instead of blacks influence.
i.e. For black 148 he could play something like L12. and kill white's eyeless stick. Letting him connect with almost no resistance is a huge relief for white.
From then on it seems white played a decent end game and came out ahead.
Re: It seems that if you kill a large group you should win.
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:06 pm
by Joelnelsonb
I guess some games are just more violent than others. One thing I love about GO is how you can screw up a conflict but find a way to still benefit from it and win the overall board position.
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6258