Life In 19x19

It usually works out like this:

I decide to start working on my Go and practicing hard. Playing regular games and doing lots of tsumego as well as reading books on it.

I lose some games at first when I'm getting back into it but then I start winning and doing well enough to be satisfied. Maybe 40-60% win ratio. Sometimes better than others. Losing happens and I brush it off and keep going.

At some point during this, usually a couple months into my study, I start losing. At first I brush it off as a bad streak. But it keeps going and I stop winning altogether. I try to get into each game calmly and remind myself that I'm just trying to get better.

After a while of this I start getting frustrated and eventually I step away from Go in order to distance myself from the frustration.

Rinse.

Repeat.

I've been stuck at about mid to weak SDK strength for a while now and I just want to improve. Anyone else go through this? Any thoughts on dealing with it and moving forward so I just don't continue looping like this?

I also get very frustrated when I lose. I think it helps remember the fun of go. Try something like blitz, rengo, or teaching a beginner, small board, etc.

I have the same problem. If you come up with a solution, let me know

Stop playing internet Go and get reviews from stronger players, so that you know, why you lose so many games. Helps me.

SoDesuNe wrote:Stop playing internet Go and get reviews from stronger players, so that you know, why you lose so many games. Helps me.

Internet go is the only place I can play. Stopping that is quitting Go for me. And I ask for reviews sometimes. I don't get them all that often so I stopped and just continued self reviewing. I don't have any play partners or friends that play so I just play random people online

Grantland Rice wrote:For when the One Great Scorer comes
To mark against your name,
He writes - not that you won or lost -
But HOW you played the Game.

Slumps happen. Plateaus happen. OC, the object of each game is to win it. But if your purpose is to improve, then each game is a learning opportunity. And losses are even better learning opportunities than wins, because you are sure that you goofed.

leonprimrose wrote:

SoDesuNe wrote:Stop playing internet Go and get reviews from stronger players, so that you know, why you lose so many games. Helps me.

Internet go is the only place I can play. Stopping that is quitting Go for me. And I ask for reviews sometimes. I don't get them all that often so I stopped and just continued self reviewing. I don't have any play partners or friends that play so I just play random people online

Here is a thought. Take 5 stones from shodans. Non-rated, OC. Even if they do not review their games with you, you can learn a lot.

That loop seems to be a natural part of improvement. Around 15kyu I got really good at winning by moyo. At that level players were bad at invading and keeping moyo's in check. I won a lot of games. But every player is unique, and some were good at stopping moyos. It was very painful to build up a giant area of potential and watch it all get erased for a loss. So from them I learned when a moyo was an overplay or too one dimensional. I became more selective, I stopped relying on the assumption that I could get two miai points because my opponent would miss one.

And that made me worse, because I was no longer benefiting from overplays and I had to fight on different terms than I was used to. I think I also overcompensated and became too tenuki focused. I lost a lot of games.

Eventually I integrated what I had learned and pushed on to the SDK's.

Now I view losing streaks as a positive sign that I'm improving. As long as people can beat me with 9 stones, I'm probably approaching the game very wrong: if I lose a heuristic that was helping me win, it was probably just a local minima, a temporary advantage that couldn't last me. Somewhere my intuition has started rejecting paths that were bringing me wins, and I trust that it's because it knows they weren't lasting advantages. Personally, just framing it in this light helps alot. These loss streaks always end, and I'm always better because of them. It's a chance to relearn a little something about go, and to strengthen my psychological resolve.

Another thing that works for me is to replay professional games or watch some haylee videos. Suddenly there's no pressure at all, it's not me winning or losing. But I'm still immersed in Go, so I'm drawn back into playing quickly. It eases the pressure of wins and losses without cutting Go out of my life.

Bill Spight wrote:

leonprimrose wrote:

SoDesuNe wrote:Stop playing internet Go and get reviews from stronger players, so that you know, why you lose so many games. Helps me.

Internet go is the only place I can play. Stopping that is quitting Go for me. And I ask for reviews sometimes. I don't get them all that often so I stopped and just continued self reviewing. I don't have any play partners or friends that play so I just play random people online

Here is a thought. Take 5 stones from shodans. Non-rated, OC. Even if they do not review their games with you, you can learn a lot.

That's a good idea. I'll give it a shot if I can find any shodans that want to

Polama wrote:That loop seems to be a natural part of improvement. Around 15kyu I got really good at winning by moyo. At that level players were bad at invading and keeping moyo's in check. I won a lot of games. But every player is unique, and some were good at stopping moyos. It was very painful to build up a giant area of potential and watch it all get erased for a loss. So from them I learned when a moyo was an overplay or too one dimensional. I became more selective, I stopped relying on the assumption that I could get two miai points because my opponent would miss one.

And that made me worse, because I was no longer benefiting from overplays and I had to fight on different terms than I was used to. I think I also overcompensated and became too tenuki focused. I lost a lot of games.

Eventually I integrated what I had learned and pushed on to the SDK's.

Now I view losing streaks as a positive sign that I'm improving. As long as people can beat me with 9 stones, I'm probably approaching the game very wrong: if I lose a heuristic that was helping me win, it was probably just a local minima, a temporary advantage that couldn't last me. Somewhere my intuition has started rejecting paths that were bringing me wins, and I trust that it's because it knows they weren't lasting advantages. Personally, just framing it in this light helps alot. These loss streaks always end, and I'm always better because of them. It's a chance to relearn a little something about go, and to strengthen my psychological resolve.

Another thing that works for me is to replay professional games or watch some haylee videos. Suddenly there's no pressure at all, it's not me winning or losing. But I'm still immersed in Go, so I'm drawn back into playing quickly. It eases the pressure of wins and losses without cutting Go out of my life.

I do usually go to watching Haylee or pro games or whatever when not playing and I DO like the way you view it. I tend to start making dumb mistakes though for the reasons. Maybe I stop playing honte or something. but it tends to be games I start playing well and then lose myself somewhere in the midgame

leonprimrose wrote: That's a good idea. I'll give it a shot if I can find any shodans that want to

If you can wait until after the US Go Congress, let's play online sometime. I can relate to your feeling, because I'm in a slump, myself.

Maybe we can help each other out.

Kirby wrote:
If you can wait until after the US Go Congress, let's play online sometime. I can relate to your feeling, because I'm in a slump, myself.

Maybe we can help each other out.

Sounds great when's the go congress?

leonprimrose wrote:

Kirby wrote:
If you can wait until after the US Go Congress, let's play online sometime. I can relate to your feeling, because I'm in a slump, myself.

Maybe we can help each other out.

Sounds great when's the go congress?

This Saturday. I'll be back on August 9th. You can contact me on KGS either with 'Brian' or 'Kirby'.

Kirby wrote:

leonprimrose wrote:

Kirby wrote:
If you can wait until after the US Go Congress, let's play online sometime. I can relate to your feeling, because I'm in a slump, myself.

Maybe we can help each other out.

Sounds great when's the go congress?

This Saturday. I'll be back on August 9th. You can contact me on KGS either with 'Brian' or 'Kirby'.

Will do!

Losing too much is certainly not fun, but I don't quite get what's going on. If you are only winning 40% of your games, that might be an indication that you are a bit weak at your current rank. If you are losing all of your games, then your rank should drop and you should start encountering opponents you can beat 50% of the time. Perhaps some of your frustration comes from thinking that you are (or should be) stronger than you really are.

daal wrote:Losing too much is certainly not fun, but I don't quite get what's going on. If you are only winning 40% of your games, that might be an indication that you are a bit weak at your current rank. If you are losing all of your games, then your rank should drop and you should start encountering opponents you can beat 50% of the time. Perhaps some of your frustration comes from thinking that you are (or should be) stronger than you really are.

40-60% I said. sometimes more sometimes less. It's within the parameters. I win my way up to whatever strength it is. I win and lose as normal. Then I start losing and dropping. Losing to strengths I was beating plenty and easily giving them 2 stones. For a number visual: Figure a person that's winning their way to shodan at maybe an 80 or 90% win ratio. They get to shodan and play for a while at about 40-60% win ration. Which is fair. Then they start losing. 2k starts beating him. then 3k. Suddenly the person just can't seem to win for a stretch of games.