Life In 19x19

To improve my game I am considering to memorize a dozen games of professionals. I am not sure yet whether a game commentary is necessary to get the reason for a certain move, but it surely can't hurt. To get a high variety of games, they should satisfy some criteria:

- different professionals
- different, but common and modern joseki
- different playing styles (e.g. fighting games, moyo games, furikawari games, cool tesuji...)
- at least two thirds of the games should include yose

Which games would you suggest for this purpose?

karaklis wrote:To improve my game I am considering to memorize a dozen games of professionals. I am not sure yet whether a game commentary is necessary to get the reason for a certain move, but it surely can't hurt. To get a high variety of games, they should satisfy some criteria:

- different professionals
- different, but common and modern joseki
- different playing styles (e.g. fighting games, moyo games, furikawari games, cool tesuji...)
- at least two thirds of the games should include yose

Which games would you suggest for this purpose?

I am very unconvinced that memorising them is ever beneficial. Playing through lots and studying why you think each move was played, then moving on to the next game, I can see as valuable. Memorising just takes up unnecessary space in your mid to long term memory I would have thought

karaklis wrote:To improve my game I am considering to memorize a dozen games of professionals. I am not sure yet whether a game commentary is necessary to get the reason for a certain move, but it surely can't hurt. To get a high variety of games, they should satisfy some criteria:

- different professionals
- different, but common and modern joseki
- different playing styles (e.g. fighting games, moyo games, furikawari games, cool tesuji...)
- at least two thirds of the games should include yose

Which games would you suggest for this purpose?

we memorize by association.
if you understand the reason for each move then you really dont have to try to memorize.

topazg wrote:

karaklis wrote:To improve my game I am considering to memorize a dozen games of professionals. I am not sure yet whether a game commentary is necessary to get the reason for a certain move, but it surely can't hurt. To get a high variety of games, they should satisfy some criteria:

- different professionals
- different, but common and modern joseki
- different playing styles (e.g. fighting games, moyo games, furikawari games, cool tesuji...)
- at least two thirds of the games should include yose

Which games would you suggest for this purpose?

I am very unconvinced that memorising them is ever beneficial. Playing through lots and studying why you think each move was played, then moving on to the next game, I can see as valuable. Memorising just takes up unnecessary space in your mid to long term memory I would have thought

our brain is not a cpu or a hard drive. memorizing more infomation will not overload our brain. memorizing the professional game will help you without you knowing for the reason i discussed above. you can not memorize the game without deep thought on why one played there.

topazg wrote:I am very unconvinced that memorising them is ever beneficial. Playing through lots and studying why you think each move was played, then moving on to the next game, I can see as valuable. Memorising just takes up unnecessary space in your mid to long term memory I would have thought

I am also not fully convinced but tend to think it can be more useful than it seems. Even though the fact that afterwards you know the games by heart is most probably not helpful at all, during the process of memorizing you learn the shapes and the try to understand the meanings of correct moves.

If you usually eat good food, you will be more irritated when you are offered a bad food. Meaning that you will more easily recognize kyu level mistakes/overplays etc of your opponent, which will give you a better chance of exploiting them.

But again, I am not convinced myself because I anyway don't have the time to do it. In any case I also would like to hear from somebody having experience with that kind of studying.

In japan it is a common methode for inseis to memorize many games of professional players.
But I dont think its necessary to memorize the endgame,too.
You should stop when its getting boring ^^ for example after a big fight....

yagamiL wrote:In japan it is a common methode for inseis to memorize many games of professional players.
But I dont think its necessary to memorize the endgame,too.
You should stop when its getting boring ^^ for example after a big fight....

i think it is equally important at the endgame. every move has purpose and reason.
even in a endgame there are many many variations that require deep thoughts.

Magicwand wrote:... you can not memorize the game without deep thought on why one played there.

Actually, I think you can. If you can play out entire games from memory with no understanding, I see little benefit from the exercise.

However, if you study the purpose of each move until you think what each one is trying to do, then even if you forget the actual game sequence, the study will offer powerful insights of how to handle similar positions in your own games.

I agree with you that if you memorise them from understanding the purposes of the moves, the exercise is valuable - but I think the game itself becomes forgettable as long as the concepts of each move have been stored away somewhere.

I think you're all wrong.

Trying to understand the moves won't hurt you, but at our levels is futile (maybe Magicwand has a chance, I dunno). Actually having the game memorized also does you little good.

The part that does the good is playing through the game repeatedly while you memorize it. It hardwires into your brain "in this position, do this. Here, do this."

(written emphatically even though I don't know any more than the rest of you )

Well, by memorizing, as opposed to just repeatedly replaying, you continually ask yourself "where does White play next" when you are stuck. Asking that question without the move in front of you forces you to think in ways you may not if you just repeatedly replay the game.

That's only a minor correction to what you say, Daniel.

I think the problem here is with many people's understanding of the term "memorize"

Its not like memorizing a phone number, which are otherwise almost random numbers with no meaning. Its more like remembering the directions to a friend's house across town. There can often be more than one way to reach your friend's house -- maybe take the back roads to avoid traffic, or a detour around a construction area. But each turn in the road usually has a purpose and meaning toward reaching your ultimate goal, and there are common landmarks along the way to help you remember.

After playing through a game just once -- by having to search for the next move number on the paper -- I can often replay 20-30% of the game from memory immediately thereafter. Did I "memorize" the game? Or did I simply remember the game? Is there even a difference?

With just a little more effort towards actual memorization, I can usually memorize an entire game (big ko fights and all) after just 2 or 3 times through.

For me, its not really in long-term memory though. After about a week (or the next game I "review"), it mostly gone (but can quickly come back if I try).

And its not about understanding the meanings behind the moves as if you were going to give a pro-level commentary. Its about gaining your own understanding of the moves played (and there can be many, depending on your level of reading). Its also about increasing your level of reading. And its about learning to recognize quickly some common patterns in play. And its about having fun.

I starting doing this when I was still a double-digit kyu. And within a very short time, I had gained about 4-5 stones in strength. Not all of my improvement was due to studying pro games, but I credit most of it.

Overall, it should be something you enjoy doing, else you won't get any benefit from the exercise anyway.

It's tempting to add my opinion to the debate on the value of game memorization, but that's offtopic

Karaklis, I can't say my recommendation meets any of your criteria - but I've been trying to memorize the atomic bomb game. (Iwamoto Kaoru vs. Hashimoto Utaro, August 4th, 1945)

I chose the game strictly because of it's historical significance.

topazg wrote:I am very unconvinced that memorising them is ever beneficial. Playing through lots and studying why you think each move was played, then moving on to the next game, I can see as valuable. Memorising just takes up unnecessary space in your mid to long term memory I would have thought

I think you are too literal here.

Dumb memorizing anything is seldom helpful, but nobody is dumb memorizing. You need to replay the games several times, look for connections between stones, try to figure out ideas as much as you can - it all helps memorizing, and I bet you cannot memorize a whole game without thinking like that. Proof? Compare memorizing a pro game and memorizing a completely random game played by beginners (or even some random-game-generating software) - the pro game will be MUCH easier to memorize.

And it is these connection and ideas you soak up while memorizing that help you. What's more, if you do a good job of memorizing, these ideas will stay with you for a while. Which is better than simply re-playing the game and moving on.

Also, we use what? 10% of our brain capacity? The few extra bits will not hamper us really. If you really think like that about the brain, you better walk around with closed eyes, since every trivial thing you happen to see and remember will take space of something important and thus diminish your mental abilities. Think about that. Every time you open your eyes, you absorb more information then a dozen of memorized Go games, I'd say.

Helel wrote:

Bantari wrote:
Also, we use what? 10% of our brain capacity?

That is a modern myth, but otherwise I agree with Bantari (which may be more than enough proof that he must be entirely wrong. )

Or a proof that you are wrong in agreeing with me.
Once we assume you made a mistake by agreeing with me, the world is still ok and I am still right.

topazg wrote:

Magicwand wrote:... you can not memorize the game without deep thought on why one played there.

Actually, I think you can. If you can play out entire games from memory with no understanding, I see little benefit from the exercise.

However, if you study the purpose of each move until you think what each one is trying to do, then even if you forget the actual game sequence, the study will offer powerful insights of how to handle similar positions in your own games.

I agree with you that if you memorise them from understanding the purposes of the moves, the exercise is valuable - but I think the game itself becomes forgettable as long as the concepts of each move have been stored away somewhere.

I think even just playing through games you will start to get a feel for better moves (building mental connections of patterns, like a mental version of muscle memory), if only through habit (certain moves will start to "feel right" vs. "feel unnatural"). I don't think you would get as much benefit from this in endgame (at least as far as move order, though you may pick up on certain endgame tesuji from this). That said...while it may be beneficial compared to doing nothing, I'm not sure it's the most efficient way to use your time if you just want to improve. Then again, some people just enjoy playing through pro games, and they find it intrinsically enjoyable and happen to derive a fringe benefit from it...more power to them (=

More than just memorizing, the a book with games of only one professional commented (now there are plenty of it) and get used to his games. try to work one game by week or every 2 days.

read the comments, check on the board the variants.. get used to why X or Y was played.

I think that's fairly better than just memorizing one day each day.

after that, just try to check more of his games, and identify the moves, the patterns and the change in his/her answers.