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Interesting opinion of O Rissei

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=12478

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Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:48 am
by macelee
O Rissei 9-dan is a Nihon Kiin player with Taiwan origin. He was recently interviewed by a Taiwan media, in which he said:

目前日本、中國和韓國頂尖棋手實力差不多，若番棋較量還是看好井山裕太

My translation:

Nowadays the strength of top Japanese, Chinese and Korean players are about the same. In multiple-game matches, I have faith in Iyama Yuta.

I am wondering if this is just his personal opinion or might this be a representative view among Japanese players.

BTW, O Rissei was there commenting a game from Taiwan Qiwang tournament. The game has a hoshi + 3-3 + tengen opening at the beginning and an interesting L&D problem in the end.

http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/51585

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:01 am
by Bill Spight
How do we know that he was not being anything but diplomatic? :)

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:05 am
by SaiLens
It's hard to agree with that opinion when the Top 100 in the world consist mostly of Chinese and Korean players.

Converted to histogram format, goratings' list sorted by country looks a bit like this:
Image

Can Iyama Yuta, Yamashita Keigo, Kono Rin, Yuki Satoshi, Ichiriki Ryo and Takao Shinji compete with the best of the others?
If only they played more international games,...

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:25 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
macelee wrote:....
My translation:

Nowadays the strength of top Japanese, Chinese and Korean players are about the same. In multiple-game matches, I have faith in Iyama Yuta...
My translation:

"The Chinese and the Koreans are kicking our butts. The only one who has a snowball's chance anymore is Iyama Yuta."

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:48 pm
by jeromie
The problem with Japanese go isn't the top (i.e. Iyama). It's the fact that Iyama is literally alone at the top; there is a huge disparity in skill level between him and every other Japanese player. His record against title challengers makes his dominance clear. I think Iyama could compete with anyone in the world in a multi-game match, though I'd give a slight edge to some of the other top players. No one else in Japan can even get decent results in a multiple game match with Iyama.

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:46 pm
by Freewheelin'
macelee wrote:.... The game has a hoshi + 3-3 + tengen opening at the beginning and an interesting L&D problem in the end.

http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/51585
Ok - I give up - how does black live?

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:34 pm
by gowan
Has everyone seen the games between Iyama Yuta and Park Jeong-hwan in the final of the 25th Asia Cup final?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-aMpnq8_2A

A thrilling game. There are subtitles for the commentary, though it looks like machine translation.

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:36 pm
by Uberdude
jeromie wrote: No one else in Japan can even get decent results in a multiple game match with Iyama.
This year, yes, but last year he lost a title match to Murukawa and Takao.

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:07 pm
by macelee
Freewheelin' wrote:Ok - I give up - how does black live?
It is a bit tricky for us but pros have no difficult to read through.

First, note that black cannot lose any of the two marked stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O X . . . X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . X . O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . . O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . @ X @ . O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Let's look at the left side which is easier.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O X . . . X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . X . O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . . O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . b X 1 . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . O X O . O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . a O . X O X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O 3 O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
If white plays :w1:, :b2: is sente. Then Black can get either 'a' or 'b' to capture some stones to create his second eye.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O # . . . X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . # 7 O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O 6 . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . 8 O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X 2 . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O X O 3 O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X 5 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O 4 X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
So :w1: is a must. Black :b2: and :b4: are good, reducing white's liberty. Then black can separate white's group at :b6:.:b8: is also an important move to reduce one liberty further. Now it is a good exercise that white cannot capture the two marked stones. In fact if white tries, he will be short of one liberty.

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:32 am
by Freewheelin'
Thanks!

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:31 pm
by phillip1882
that position, isn't the white center group dead? i see no way for white to capture anything, and it only has 5 liberties, where as black has more than 5.

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:38 pm
by phillip1882
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O X 1 4 5 X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . X O O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . X O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . 3 2 X X X 4 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O 1 X O X O X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . O X O O O O X 5 O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X 6 O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . X O X X 7 O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X 8 O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:50 pm
by Uberdude
phillip1882 wrote:that position, isn't the white center group dead? i see no way for white to capture anything, and it only has 5 liberties, where as black has more than 5.
Exactly, that's why white resigned.
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