Life In 19x19

The second MDM Korean Women's Baduk League Began last February. There are eight teams, three games per match in a round robin:

Buan Gomso Salt
Kim Hyeoimin 7p
Kim Hyelim 2p
Lee Yujin 1p
----------------------
Seogwipo Chilsimni
Oh Jeonga 2p
Moon Dowon 3p
Kim Miri 3p
[Park Sohyun 3p]
----------------------
Seoul Bukwang Takseu
Choi Jeong 6p
Kim Sinyoung 1p
Kim Nahyun 1p
(Yu Zhiying 5p)
----------------------
Inje Haneul Naelin
Park Taehee 1p
Lee Youngjoo 1p
Oh Yujin 2p
(Fujisawa Rina 3p)
----------------------
Pohang, POSCO Chemtech
Kim Cheayoung 2p
Cho Hyeyeon 9p
Kim Eunseon 4p
(Wang Chenxing 5p)
----------------------
Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction
Park Jiyeon 4p
Kwon Juri 1p
Kim Yoonyoung 4p
(Xie Yimin 6p)
----------------------
SG Golf
Park Jieun 9p
Kang Dajeong 1p
Song Hyeryung 1p
(Rui Naiwei 9p)
----------------------
Yeosu Geobugseon
Lee Sula 4p
Lee Minjin 7p
Kim Dayoung 1p
Paek Jihee 2p
----------------------

First Round
Feb 18,19,20,21

Yeosu Geobugseon > SG Golf, 2:1
Lee Minjin 7p - Song Hyeryung 1p B+R,
Lee Sula 4p - Park Jieun 9p B+12.5,
Kim Dayoung 1p - Kang Dajeong 1p B+R

Pohang, POSCO Chemtech > Buan Gomso Salt, 2:1
Kim Cheayoung 2p - Kim Hyelim 2p W+1.5,
Cho Hyeyeon 9p - Lee Yujin 1p W+3.5,
Wang Chenxing 5p - Kim Hyeoimin 7p W+R

Seoul Bukwang Takseu > Seogwipo Chilsimni 3:0,
Choi Jeong 6p - Moon Dowon 3p W+R,
Kim Sinyoung 1p - Oh Jeonga 2p B+1.5,
Yu Zhiying 5p - Kim Miri 3p W+R

Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction > Inje Haneul Naelin 2:1,
Kim Yoonyoung 4p - Lee Youngjoo 1p B+R,
Park Jiyeon 4p - Park Taehee 1p B+R,
Kwon Juri 1p - Oh Yujin 2p W+R

Second Round,
Feb 23,26,27,23^[1]

Seoul Bukwang Takseu > Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction 3:0,
Choi Jeong 6p - Kim Yoonyoung 4p B+R,
Kim Sinyoung 1p - Kwon Juri 1p W+1.5,
Yu Zhiying 5p - Park Jiyeon 4p B+R

Buan Gomso Salt > SG Golf 2:1,
Kim Hyeoimin 7p - Song Hyeryung 1p B+R,
Lee Yujin 1p - Park Jieun 9p W+0.5,
Kim Hyelim 2p - Kang Dajeong 1p W+4.5

Seogwipo Chilsimni > Yeosu Geobugseon 3:0,
Oh Jeonga 2p - Lee Sula 4p W+R,
Moon Dowon 3p - Lee Minjin 7p B+R,
Kim Miri 3p - Kim Dayoung 1p W+R

Pohang, POSCO Chemtech > Inje Haneul Naelin 2:1,
Kim Cheayoung 2p - Lee Youngjoo 1p B+R,
Wang Chenxing 5p - Oh Yujin 2p B+2.5,
Cho Hyeyeon 9p - Park Taehee 1p B+R

Third Round
Mar 3,4,5,6

Inje Haneul Naelin > Buan Gomso Salt 2:1,
Fujisawa Rina 3p - Lee Yujin 1p W+R,
Oh Yujin 2p - Kim Hyeoimin 7p W+3.5,
Park Taehee 1p - Kim Hyelim 2p W+R

Seogwipo Chilsimni > Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction 2:1,
Oh Jeonga 2p - Park Jiyeon 4p W+R,
Moon Dowon 3p - Kwon Juri 1p B+4.5,
Kim Miri 3p - Kim Yoonyoung 4p B+R

SG Golf > Pohang, POSCO Chemtech 2:1,
Rui Naiwei 9p - Kim Cheayoung 2p B+R
Song Hyeryung 1p - Kim Eunseon 4p W+R,
Park Jieun 9p - Cho Hyeyeon 9p W+2.5

Seoul Bukwang Takseu > Yeosu Geobugseon
Choi Jeong 6p - Kim Dayoung 1p B+R,
Kim Sinyoung 1p - Lee Minjin 7p W+2.5,
Yu Zhiying 5p - Lee Sula 4p W+R

Standings,
Seoul Bukwang Takseu 3-0 (100%0, 9w 0l
Inje Haneul Naelin 2-1 (66.7%), 5w 4l
Pohang, POSCO Chemtech 2-1 (66.7%), 5w 4l
Seogwipo Chilsimni 2-1 (66.7%), 5w 4l
SG Golf 1-2 (33.3%) 4w 5l
Buan Gomso Salt 1-2 (33.3%) 4w 5l
Yeosu Geobugseon 1-2 (33.3%) 4w 5l
Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction 0-3 (0%) 2w 7l

Five players without a loss,
Choi Jung, Kim Sinyoung 1p, Yu Zhiying 5p (3 wins)
Fujisawa Rina, Rui Naiwei (1 win)

[1] Probably due to the IMSA elite Mind games-- at least I know Choi Jung and Yu Zhiying (both in the team crushing everyone else so far) played there, and apparently, after Yu beat Choi in the final, they flew on the plane back to Korea "side by side".

Another interesting point to note is that Mr John Fairburn posted an interview in which Fujisawa said she wanted to go to Korea for training (sun-up till-sundown, intense training is common among the young players and yeungsueng). It might be a related point or not, but playing competitively in Korea could also be considered a form of training as the level is so high.

4th Round, March 8th for all games.

Yeosu Geobugseon
Lee Minjin 7p
Kim Dayoung 1p
Lee Sula 4p

V

Inje Haneul Naelin
Lee Youngjoo 1p
Oh Yujin 2p
Park Taehee 1p
-------------------
Buan Gomso Salt
Kim Hyeoimin 7p
Lee Yujin 1p
Kim Hyelim 2p

v

Seoul Bukwang Takseu
Choi Jeong 6p
Yu Zhiying 5p
Kim Sinyoung 1p
-------------------
POSCO Chemtech
Kim Eunseon 4p
Kim Cheayoung 2p
Cho Hyeyeon 9p

v

Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction
Park Jiyeon 4p
Kim Yoonyoung 4p
Kwon Juri 1p
-------------------
SG Golf
Rui Naiwei 9p
Song Hyeryung 1p
Kang Dajeong 1p

v

Seogwipo Chilsimni
Oh Jeonga 2p
Park Sohyun 3p
Moon Dowon 3p

Inje Haneul Naelin > Yeosu Geobugseon 2:1,
Lee Youngjoo 1p - Lee Minjin 7p B+R
Park Taehee 1p - Kim Dayoung 1p B+R
Oh Yujin 2p - Lee Sula 4p W+8.5

Seoul Bukwang Takseu > Buan Gomso Salt 3:0,
Choi Jeong 6p - Kim Hyeoimin 7p B+R
Yu Zhiying 5p - Lee Yujin 1p W+R
Kim Sinyoung 1p - Kim Hyelim 2p B+3.5

POSCO Chemtech > Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction 2:1,
Kim Eunseon 4p - Park Jiyeon 4p B+T?
Kim Cheayoung 2p - Kim Yoonyoung 4p B+R
Cho Hyeyeon 9p - Kwon Juri 1p B+R

SG Golf > Seogwipo Chilsimni
Rui Naiwei 9p - Oh Jeonga 2p W+2.5
Song Hyeryung 1p - Park Sohyun 3p B+R
Kang Dajeong 1p - Moon Dowon 3p B+4.5

Seoul Bukwang Takseu keeps making result recording easy for me. The first team to win against Seoul would have the game records posted here from go4go .

I just had to post this today of all days, however the "두는" part is hard to decipher. Would anyone who understands Korean be able to translate it?

"바둑 두는 여자는 아름답다"

--Motto of the Baduk League this year (or possibly Female baduk incentive of the KBA?)

Elom wrote:I just had to post this today of all days, however the "두는" part is hard to decipher. Would anyone who understands Korean be able to translate it?

"바둑 두는 여자는 아름답다"

--Motto of the Baduk League this year (or possibly Female baduk incentive of the KBA?)

Women who play Baduk are beautiful.

두는 comes from the verb 두다 which means place/set. It's the verb they use instead of "play" for go.

I'll second what yoyoma says.

Just wanted to add that the "X-는" grammar always seemed more unintuitive to me compared to Japanese in this regard. If you know Japanese, Elom, you can slap a noun on the back of a verb pretty easily to get good results:

To play go -> 囲碁を打つ
To have played go (past form) -> 囲碁を打った
Person that plays go -> 囲碁を打つ人
Person that played go -> 囲碁を打った人

Easy, right? Got your verb phrase, then BAM. Slap on a noun and you're good to go.

In Korean, it seemed less intuitive to me.

To play go -> 바둑을 두다
Person that plays go -> 바둑을 두는 사람
Person that played go -> 바둑을 둔 사람 (or 바둑을 두었던 사람)

Since I studied Japanese first, this seemed more complicated to me. Instead of just slapping a noun on the back of the verb, I had to do extra stuff to prepare for the noun.

When I was first studying Korean, I thought it would be easier to do this way:
To play go -> 바둑을 두다
Person that plays go -> 바둑을 두다 사람
Person that played go -> 바둑을 두었다 사람

But now, since I've gotten used to the correct way, it makes sense that way.

Please double check the round 4 results. Some results are not consistent with the information I've seen.

Kirby wrote:I'll second what yoyoma says.

Just wanted to add that the "X-는" grammar always seemed more unintuitive to me compared to Japanese in this regard. If you know Japanese, Elom, you can slap a noun on the back of a verb pretty easily to get good results:

To play go -> 囲碁を打つ
To have played go (past form) -> 囲碁を打った
Person that plays go -> 囲碁を打つ人
Person that played go -> 囲碁を打った人

Easy, right? Got your verb phrase, then BAM. Slap on a noun and you're good to go.

In Korean, it seemed less intuitive to me.

To play go -> 바둑을 두다
Person that plays go -> 바둑을 두는 사람
Person that played go -> 바둑을 둔 사람 (or 바둑을 두었던 사람)

Since I studied Japanese first, this seemed more complicated to me. Instead of just slapping a noun on the back of the verb, I had to do extra stuff to prepare for the noun.

When I was first studying Korean, I thought it would be easier to do this way:
To play go -> 바둑을 두다
Person that plays go -> 바둑을 두다 사람
Person that played go -> 바둑을 두었다 사람

But now, since I've gotten used to the correct way, it makes sense that way.

While I'm no expert in linguistics, I do have a lot of interest in the syntactic structure of various languages.

As you said correctly, the verb used when saying to 'play' go is 'duda' (두다). But you cannot view 'duda' as equivalent to the english 'play'. The effective part that creates the actual meaning is 'du-', which is called 'eogan' (어간; 語幹; word stem). The eogan is combined with one or more 'eomi' (어미; 語尾; word tail), which makes it present tense, past tense, declarative, imperative, or anything else, or even many of these combined. For those interested, you can peek in the hide tag for some examples of eomi combinations.


So while the Korean dictionaries chose the '-da' eomi as the form to be in the dictionaries, that's just one of the numerous eomi combinations, and the eogan 'du-' is what really gives the meaning of playing baduk or more usually of placing something somewhere. Therefore it's very natural that 'duda' changes its form depending on its syntactic role.

MinjaeKim wrote:So while the Korean dictionaries chose the '-da' eomi as the form to be in the dictionaries, that's just one of the numerous eomi combinations, and the eogan 'du-' is what really gives the meaning of playing baduk or more usually of placing something somewhere. Therefore it's very natural that 'duda' changes its form depending on its syntactic role.

Yes, of course. I'm not arguing that there aren't many forms like this.

But remember that I am comparing this to Japanese, which I studied first. Japanese also has several different forms. "打つ" is the dictionary form, but you can have several different combinations that change the nuance of the verb (e.g. 打ちます, 打てば、打てる、打たれる、etc.).

But in Japanese, you can take the Japanese form exactly as is, and put a noun at the end. In Korean, it doesn't work that way, and that's the point.

So when I was first learning Korean, I thought it would be the same as the Japanese way - take dictionary form, and put noun at the end. But as I've studied Korean, it seems quite natural to do it the "correct" way.

macelee wrote:Please double check the round 4 results. Some results are not consistent with the information I've seen.

Thank you for noticng these errors to me-- the results in matches 1 and 3 should have been corrected now,

The last pairing:

Park Jieun 9p - Moon Dowon 3p B+4.5

seems to be incorrect too. The post is a very valuable resource. But better make sure the data is accurate.

macelee wrote:The last pairing:

Park Jieun 9p - Moon Dowon 3p B+4.5

seems to be incorrect too. The post is a very valuable resource. But better make sure the data is accurate.

I agree, thank you for your help, I cannot afford to be sloppy about the recording of any tournament results. But it also makes one appreciate the quality of the scribing you, Mr igokisen and Mr Fairbairn have done over the years .

March 17,18,19,20

SG Golf v Seoul Bukwang Takseu, March 17th,

Rui Naiwei9p-v-Choi Jeong 6p
Park Jieun 9p-v-Kim Nahyun 1p
Song Hyeryung 1p-v-Kim Sinyoung 1p

Yeosu Geobugseon v Pohang, POSCO Chemtech, March 18th,
Kim Dayoung 1p-v-Kim Cheayoung 2p
Lee Sula 4p-v-Wang Chenxing 5p
Paek Jihee 2p-v-Cho Hyeyeon 9p

Buan Gomso Salt v Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction March 19th,
Kim Hyeoimin 7p-v-Kwon Juri 1p
Lee Yujin 1p-v-Park Jiyeon 4p
Kim Hyelim 2p-v-Kim Yoonyoung 4p

Seogwipo Chilsimni v Inje Haneul Naelin, March 20th,
Kim Miri 3p-v-Lee Youngjoo 1p
Moon Dowon 3p-v-Park Taehee 1p
Oh Jeonga 2p-v-Oh Yujin 2p

Players with less than two losses, and 3 or more wins before this match.
Choi Jeong 6p (Seoul Bukwang Takseu) 4-0
Kim Sinyoung 1p (Seoul Bukwang Takseu) 4-0
Yu Zhiying 5p (Seoul Bukwang Takseu) 4-0
Park Taehee 1p (Inje Haneul Naelin) 3-1
Oh Yujin 2p (Inje Haneul Naelin) 3-1
Kim Yoonyoung 4p (Gyeonggi Lakeside Construction) 3-1
Moon Dowon 3p (Seogwipo Chilsimni) 3-1
Cho Hyeyeon 9p (Pohang, POSCO Chemtech) 3-1

Players with less than two losses, and 2 or more wins before this match.
Rui Naiwei 9p (SG Golf) 2-0

Players with less than two losses, and a win before this match.
Fujisawa Rina 3p (2p->3p) (Inje Haneul Naelin) 1-0