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 Post subject: Re: dfan's quest for competence
Post #41 Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:13 am 
Judan

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I'm hardly one to talk being quite the byo-yomi blunderer myself, but a general principle you could try to learn from this is that when your opponent starts doing funny business inside your territory it's generally a good idea to get his annoying aji stones captured asap as once they aren't on the board there's no more cuts/ataris/forcing moves from them. So that capture, or the tiger mouth connection below white's move, should be the first instinct of how to not mess up. (I had some similar heart-pounding at the end of forum/viewtopic.php?p=234105#p234105).


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Post #42 Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:57 am 
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The tiger mouth connection below White's placement was indeed what I played. My main worry was White being able to connect his three stones in sente, thus making his second eye, and I think I was also seeing ghosts of my whole corner group getting cut off and not being able to make two eyes. With two minutes to think I would have been much more confident in reading something out but byo-yomi plus the shock of suddenly having to think at all plus the disaster of the previous round had me sweating for a couple of moves!

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Post #43 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:56 am 
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US Go Congress Day 3

My round 3 US Open game was against a 4k college-aged kid. Looking him up in the AGA database beforehand, I saw that he had self-promoted from 7k, which meant that his strength could really be anything. He had already gone 1-1 as a 4k so he clearly wasn't just making it up. Playing White, I had to laugh to myself when this position came up:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Position at move 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . X . . B . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This time I knew what to do! In fact, things could have gone even better four moves later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Position at move 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a O O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . X . . X . b . O . O . . . |
$$ | . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As Ding Wei 9p immediately pointed out in my game review later that afternoon, a is sente against the Black corner. It's a kyu game, so anything could still happen, but boy is that position good for White. Instead I played b, which I knew was small, but I was trying to put pressure on Black's lower group.

I felt rather under pressure most of the game (he played tenuki a lot, which impressed me given that he was coming into the tournament as a 7k), but when I counted after one nice sequence I saw that I was well ahead (at least 10 points on the board), and the computers don't think I was ever in any danger. This is something that I need to continue to work on; it's easy for me to think I'm not doing well and panic, or think that I should be able to coast to a win and get a rude awakening. This is much less true for me in chess, where I may be wrong but I generally think I understand what is going on and have a strong sense of how to proceed. Anyway, at the end he missed a threat on a corner group and I won by 52.5 instead of "just" 25.5. That brought me to 2-1 for the tournament after my first round disaster and continued to rebuild my confidence.

That afternoon I went to the previously-mentioned game review session. There was a common theme in the game reviews where the foreign pros would express astonishment that we were just kyu players. I think part of this is mild rank inflation in Asia (which the pros mentioned) and part of it is that Western players in general, and especially those who care enough to come to a Congress, are more likely to have studied the game semi-seriously rather than played thousands of games for fun, so our first 50 moves are likely to look pretty good for our level before we inevitably screw up in the fighting.

After a fun dinner with the Boston crew along with DN 6k and IC 9k, I stopped by the event where Andy Liu 1p and Ryan Li 1p played pair go against each other, each partnered with ELF OpenGo. The game itself was very entertaining but the presentation did not live up to it. I want to give credit to the presenters for trying, so I'm not going to get into a big list of complaints, though. I took off after an hour to attend another informal In-seong AYD review session, after which a few dozen of us, including some Korean pros, went to the local pub and had a lot of beers, which In-seong very generously paid for the first round of. It was really fun to hang out in an informal environment with the beer flowing and chat with him (and others) for a while. I stumbled back to my dorm around midnight very happy that the next day was a rest day.


This post by dfan was liked by 3 people: Calvin Clark, ez4u, Kirby
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Post #44 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:52 am 
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dfan wrote:
I took off after an hour to attend another informal In-seong AYD review session, after which a few dozen of us, including some Korean pros, went to the local pub and had a lot of beers, which In-seong very generously paid for the first round of. It was really fun to hang out in an informal environment with the beer flowing and chat with him (and others) for a while. I stumbled back to my dorm around midnight very happy that the next day was a rest day.


Sorry I missed that (and the whole Go Congress :cry: ). Thanks for sharing!

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 Post subject: Re: dfan's quest for competence
Post #45 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:10 pm 
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US Go Congress Day 4

Wednesday is always an off day for the US Open. Some people see the local sights, and others play in the one-day 4-round Diehard tournament. I just wanted to chill, and it was another intensely rainy day, so I just headed down to the main building to watch people play in the Diehard and see if I could pick up a casual game or two. Watching the tournament, I instantly slightly regretted not entering it, but I knew that by the afternoon I'd want to nap much more than play.

After lunch, the US Open tournament director AH 1d was desperately looking for a game, since he hadn't gotten a chance to play yet all week. He was happy to play even (despite the 4-rank difference in AGA rating, both of us have relatively high variance in our performances). As White, I wasn't very happy with my opening, and didn't feel like I had much to show for my position besides some nebulous influence that seemed unlikely to turn into many points, though Leela Zero is much happier (it evaluates the starting position of the diagram below to be only 54% for Black). My opponent, though, being a fighter, decided to plop down a stone into the middle of the board and dare me to kill it rather than just reduce the center. The following comedy of errors ensued:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Moves 87 to 96
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . 5 . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 2 . 4 . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . 6 . . . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . 3 . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . 0 . 7 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . 1 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X O . O . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X . O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X X , X O O O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . X X X O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Moves 97 to 106
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . O . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . . 2 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . X 1 5 6 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . O 4 X 9 0 . X . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . X 3 7 8 . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X O . O . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X . O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X X , X O O O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . X X X O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Moves 107 to 116
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . O 5 . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . . O X 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . X X X O O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . 7 9 8 X X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . X X X O 1 6 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0 O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X O . O . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X . O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X X , X O O O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . X X X O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Moves 117 to 126
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . X . . . . 4 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 8 6 O . O X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O 5 . . O X O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . 7 . X X X O O X 3 . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . X X 1 X X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . X X X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . O X . |
$$ | . . . X X O . O 9 0 . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X . O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . X X , X O O O . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . X X X O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After creating that square-with-handle dumpling, I had to take a picture, which I gleefully showed to everyone I could for the rest of the day. Black ended up making a ko that let him connect to the bottom, but I got more than enough compensation and was already up by about 20 when he made an endgame blunder and resigned. A nice confidence booster!

That evening AH and other Boston-area folk introduced me to the nearby Culture Cafe, which basically concentrated 100% of the Somerville/Cambridge vibe of my home into a single building of Williamsburg: super laid back and comfy atmosphere, couches, delicious food, and yes, beer. It became my home away from home for the rest of the week. I played SM 6k again on his iPad in an extremely casual game while downing a couple of beers and won a game by 30 points that was, thankfully for you all, not very interesting.

It was In-seong's last day at the Congress before he jetted off to the European Go Congress, and he very kindly did some more reviews for AYD members, after which he was all excited for another pub run but everyone, including me, just wanted to rest up for the next US Open day. (Yes, I showed him the dumpling picture too.)

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 Post subject: Re: dfan's quest for competence
Post #46 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Calvin Clark wrote:
Sorry I missed that (and the whole Go Congress :cry: ). Thanks for sharing!

It was an unfortunate coincidence that I missed most of the L19 regulars that usually attend the Congress that I was looking forward to meeting (you, Kirby, wineandgolover). Next time!

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Post #47 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:39 pm 
Honinbo

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dfan wrote:
Calvin Clark wrote:
Sorry I missed that (and the whole Go Congress :cry: ). Thanks for sharing!

It was an unfortunate coincidence that I missed most of the L19 regulars that usually attend the Congress that I was looking forward to meeting (you, Kirby, wineandgolover). Next time!


I'm over it, now - I was being a bum ;-). I would have liked to meet you, too.

I'm going to the Cotsen in October, and also Madison next year. If you go to either, let's sync up!

_________________
it's be happy, not achieve happiness


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Post #48 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:51 pm 
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US Go Congress Day 5

The morning of round 4 I received my pairing by text as usual. I should mention that the Congress went almost totally paperless this year; there was no printed booklet, a mobile app had all the up-to-the-minute schedules and other information, and pairings were sent by text (although they were still also taped to the wall). I thought it all worked great and I hope future Congresses follow suit. Anyway, my opponent was a solid 2k 12-year-old who had nonetheless gone 0-3 so far in the Congress. I was looking forward to finally playing someone above my rank.

I was White, and was immediately confronted with an unfamiliar joseki in the upper left when Black cut with :b2::

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Moves 14 to 23
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 X 0 X . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . 8 2 3 6 . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . a 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At this point, I could either sacrifice my stones with a (in which case I really shouldn't have made the :w9: - :b10: exchange) or start a capturing race with b. I kept on reading it out and reading it out, and I was really sure that Black's ladder didn't work if I started the capturing race, and finally decided that I had to trust my reading:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Moves 24 to 29
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . .
$$ | . X O X X X . . .
$$ | . X X O X . . . .
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . .
$$ | . 3 4 6 . . . . .
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Oh, that's right, there's a net. Whoops. I honestly considered resigning (my only two compensation is two stones on the second line) but finally took a deep breath and decided to just have fun and play quickly and freely; there's always time to resign later.

I made a few overplays with a free heart and my opponent responded rather passively in general, and I started to think that maybe I could at least make the game interesting. Then I got a nice position at the top while attacking a group of his, and saw the glimmer of an idea, which I kept trying to read out during every one of his moves. I played a ladder-breaker in the center while doing other things, and then we reached the point where I could spring my trap:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . X O X . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . O O X X X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . O O O X X O . , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . X O . X X O . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . O . O X X . . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | X X O , . . . . . , . . O . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . O O X X X . O O . . |
$$ | . X X . . X . O . . . O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 122 to 128
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 5 3 4 O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 O O O 1 2 X O X . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . O O X X X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . O O O X X O . , O . . |
$$ | . X O O 7 . . . . . . . X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . X O . X X O . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . O . O X X . . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | X X O , . . . . . , . . O . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . O O X X X . O O . . |
$$ | . X X . . X . O . . . O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Boom! The net no longer works. (In retrospect :w5: - :b6: did not need to be played and was a bad exchange.)

He was visibly deflated after this, and things just got worse for him after he made a blunder with :b1: below. I will let you find the simple refutation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Move 181
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . O O X O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O O X X O X . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . O O X X X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . O O O X X O . , O . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . . . X O . X X O . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . O . O X X . . X X O |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . O . O X . X . X . |
$$ | X X O , . . . . . , . . O X X O X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . O . O X O O X . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . X O O O O X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X . X O X X . X O X |
$$ | . O O . O . . O O X X . X . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | O O 1 X . . . . . O O X X X . O O . . |
$$ | O X X . . X X O . O X . . X . O . . . |
$$ | X . . X . X O . O . O X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the end I won by 14.5 points. I was pretty excited to have outplayed a solid 2k after a disastrous start. I watched some game reviews that afternoon (I didn't present my own game because it seemed a little silly), which are my favorite pro events; I don't like simuls and the lectures can really be a mixed bag. I also stopped by the Senior Tournament to see my Boston compatriot Mr C 5d increase his record to 4-0.

That evening I played DN 6k (swannod) in a casual no-komi game and lost by (the lack of) komi after making an overplay that I didn't bother to read the consequences of. Whoops! It was a nice balance to the confidence surge I had after my Open game, demonstrating that I really still had to read and perform at my best, not just play lots of shape moves.

Afterward I cheered on Mr C 5d and BT 2d in the Pair Go tournament. BT warned me beforehand that she didn't think their styles would mesh very well (they had never played Pair Go before), and it turned out to be true, but it still seemed pretty entertaining for everyone involved. The best moment was in their second game where they played a 2p and had to give him and his opponent three stones because he was playing with a (massively underrated) 8k kid. Now that I was 3-1 and actually tied for first in the 4k division, I headed home early to get some rest, which was a good move since Pair Go didn't wrap up until 11pm or so.

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Post #49 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:34 pm 
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dfan wrote:
US Go Congress Day 5

I was White, and was immediately confronted with an unfamiliar joseki in the upper left when Black cut with :b2::



You're on internetgoschool member, right? Review Mingjiu's lectures on this pattern under 'Tricky moves in josekis.' You can find it with the pattern search. I have to get dinner now, so no time to regurgitate what I remember.

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Post #50 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Tygem: 커비라고해
Quote:
Oh, that's right, there's a net. Whoops.


Note that the net exists because of the atari you played at d18. Its such a natural move, but in this case, it benefits black.

Yes, I have insomnia. I have to get up in 4.5 hours to run. I hope I'll have the energy to play a game in the morning...

_________________
it's be happy, not achieve happiness

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Post #51 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:00 am 
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Calvin Clark wrote:
You're on internetgoschool member, right? Review Mingjiu's lectures on this pattern under 'Tricky moves in josekis.' You can find it with the pattern search. I have to get dinner now, so no time to regurgitate what I remember.

Oh, great, thanks. I did look it up afterwards in Kogo so I know a little bit about it, but it will be nice to get an actual lecture on it.

Kirby wrote:
Note that the net exists because of the atari you played at d18. Its such a natural move, but in this case, it benefits black.

Good point! Though starting the capturing race still wouldn't work for me.

In one of the game reviews (maybe even the one that afternoon), the pro kept on pointing out again and again how every forcing atari and peep that was played was bad, and exactly what possibilities it was killing off. It was very eye-opening. This is another good example.

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Post #52 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:54 am 
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US Go Congress Day 6

Another day, another child to face in the US Open. This time it was someone who was entering his first AGA tournament with a declared rank of 1k, but had gone 0-4 so far, so that 1k guess seemed a little sketchy. The tournament used "handicap minus 2", so our apparent rank difference of three meant that the game handicap was one; that is, I was Black with no komi.

It was instantly clear that his fuseki, at least, was not 1k, and we quickly got to this position after he invaded my lower side early and made a bunch of non-idiomatic moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X X . . . X X . X X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O W O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

That White shape is definitely unsettled locally, and I have the choice between trying to kill it immediately, probably ending the game right here if I'm successful, or forcing it to live really small in gote and then play on the right side star point or something and claim a 50-point side. As usual I made the wrong choice and tried to kill it. Takeaways:
  • The kind of position I would have after playing M4 and Q10 (say) is just as amazing as killing a 7-stone group
  • Locally dead does not mean dead
  • A bulky five has a heck of a lot of liberties, so be very wary of getting into a capturing race involving one.
After some cuts from him and a lot of wasted throw-ins for me, it ended up as a ko in which he's trying to kill me outright and I'm just trying to get a seki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . O X O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O X X X O X X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X O O X O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X O O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . O O O O O O X . X . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White to play and make the worst ko threat on the board!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X W X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . O X O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O X X X O X X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X O O X O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X O O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X a O O O O O O X . X . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

OK, I guess a is even worse, if you count that.

Not a 1k move. In the end, he captured my group, but I finally made that giant side, and he hardly even tried to invade it; I get the feeling he was not much of a counter. I ended up winning by 36.5.

I felt good about getting another win, boosting my record to 4-1, but it felt like kind of a silly game, and another one that there didn't seem any point to getting a review for. After lunch I watched some more reviews and rooted on Mr C 5d in his quest to win the Senior Open, which he did, hooray!

After another fun dinner with Boston and AYD folks, I played a relatively casual (but timed) even game with Boston friend SL 1k. I was White, and felt pretty good after this sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X 3 X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O O O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In fact Leela Zero thinks the game is practically over. :b1: should definitely be a jump up to a, and once I am basically forced to play :w4:, my group's strength has increased dramatically. I cut off some of his group as he ran, and then totally shredded him when he tried to make up for it on the right side; he resigned after 78 moves. It was nice to play more of a real game than the silly one I had played that morning, and pushing around a 1k in an even game gave me a lot of confidence heading into the final round. I was one of four 4k players with a 4-1 record, and one of the others was my arch-nemesis from AYD (I always outplay him in the opening and then usually end up losing anyway). I figured I had a pretty good chance of playing him, which would be fun, but in any case it should be an exciting final round. (Not that it really matters much, but my tiebreaks were terrible, since the first tiebreak was sum of opponent's McMahon scores, and I had playing opponents with lower scores than my fellow players for most of the tournament since I started out with a loss. But I was still excited to be among the leaders.)

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Post #53 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:08 am 
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US Go Congress Day 7

The pairings arrived the next morning, and I was disappointed to find that not only were none of the 4-1 4ks paired against each other, but I was actually paired down to the next McMahon group and was playing a 5k. I had been psyching myself up to play either one of my fellow leading 4ks or a higher ranked player, so I had to take a deep breath and prepare to play a different sort of game.

After the youngsters of the last few rounds, I was back to playing a veteran. I was Black and tried to just play a solid game, assuming that I would be able to outplay my opponent from there. Of course, once it actually came down to it, I felt that I had to try to make the best move on the board, and some fighting developed early on. Over the course of the following sequence Leela Zero thinks that Black's winning percentage dropped from 57% to 32%. See if you can spot what it didn't like.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 9 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 4 3 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . 2 1 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . 0 O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Shortly after that, White came into the right side and I tried to attack it but ended up forming another weak group, and although I was able to eventually make enough strength to break into the upper side, it wasn't nearly enough, and even after I made enough trouble to start a big ko fight at the end, my opponent navigated it successfully and won by 18.5.

So I ended up with a disappointing 4-2 record, and instead of making an authoritative return to 3k, my AGA rating actually decreased a hair from -4.10 to -4.11. In retrospect I should have played more rated games over the last year to try to get my rank back to 3k before entering the Congress, but in fairness I didn't realize that I wouldn't be able to play up a rank. (Also in fairness, if I played like a 4k I probably didn't deserve to enter as a 3k!). Playing rated games stresses me out in general, but given my results in unrated games (which are pretty even against 2ks), I just need to play a lot and let the chips fall where they may.

My opponent was excited to have a pro review the game, so I rushed back from lunch early to make it to the game review session in time, since I had the only record of the game... and my opponent didn't show up and there wasn't time to review the game anyway. One final trick move. I was in a bit of a sour mood but my spirits quickly improved when six of us went off to a cafe and hung out for a couple of hours, joking and reviewing and just engaging in general camaraderie. It all reminded me that there's a lot more to the game and community than winning and losing individual games.

It was nice to hang out with folks at the Congress-ending banquet; the food wasn't special, but I didn't expect it to be, and the ceremonies went on for a while, but it was nice to clap for people who had done well, including some of my friends. Eight of the Boston folks went off to a bar afterwards and had a bunch of beers and cocktails and yes, even played some more go. It was a really nice way to end the week.

Overall the Congress exceeded my expectations (even if my performance didn't). It was fun to be around a lot of go players, and my enthusiasm for the game held up all week; in fact, it probably ended higher than it started! I often have difficulty getting up the courage to make friends with strangers, but having lots of Boston-area pals there, in addition to the folks I knew virtually from AYD, made things a lot easier. I'm already planning to go to next year's Congress in Madison.

As far as my own improvement goes; over the last year I've gone from being nervous against 3ks to feeling like 2ks are an even match and having occasional even wins against 1k/1d players (like the two this week). Against Mr C 5d I'm now 3-0 taking 5 stones and 1-0 taking 4 stones. So I know that the top end of my range of performance is in a good place, and the main thing I need to do is pull up the bottom end of my range. I will try to play more rated games over the next year and prove it. Most importantly, I'm still having a lot of fun.


This post by dfan was liked by 2 people: Calvin Clark, ez4u
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Post #54 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:43 am 
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dfan wrote:
US Go Congress Day 7
See if you can spot what it didn't like.


my guess, either
:b1: was bad because it allows white to split you and ensure access to the center with weak group to attack
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . 2 . 3 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

or
having two group is good enough because white cannot surround the left one in one move. So you need to fix the right group so you can run the left one after
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . 1 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Am I correct?

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Post #55 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:03 am 
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Thank you for the comments, Laerthd! Responses follow:

Laerthd wrote:
:b1: was bad because it allows white to split you and ensure access to the center with weak group to attack
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . 2 . 3 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

LZ likes both of our moves approximately equally (around 51% winrate for Black). After your :b1: it thinks White would take a big point elsewhere rather than :w2:.

Your move was the other major one I considered. I attached because In-seong is always telling me to play with more physical power and attach to annoy my opponent. Given the surrounding circumstances I thought I was likely to be able to seal White in.


Laerthd wrote:
having two group is good enough because white cannot surround the left one in one move. So you need to fix the right group so you can run the left one after
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . 1 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O a X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

LZ does not like :b1: at all (-10%) when White responds with :w2:. It does think a is about as good as the move I played (which was at :w2:); like your suggestion, it strengthens Black's stones there, but it also threatens a cut.

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Post #56 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:04 am 
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I got curious and entered the position in LZ.
I use only CPU LZ so the analyses aren't done with much playouts but still, it's probably far higher level than I am.

Actually LZ is cool letting your group be a stick and playing elsewhere, quite surprinsing to me.
My suggested move doesn't even appears at 5k playouts! My guess is that the elephant eye makes it easy to push through.

That being said, this is the kind of situation where I find it hard to learn from LZ. To me it consider playing elsewhere at L16 because it knows exactly what it can get out of them later. If I tried to do that, I would just give 4 stones to my opponent

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 Post subject: Re: dfan's quest for competence
Post #57 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:46 am 
Judan

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Laerthd wrote:
I got curious and entered the position in LZ.
I use only CPU LZ so the analyses aren't done with much playouts but still, it's probably far higher level than I am.

Actually LZ is cool letting your group be a stick and playing elsewhere, quite surprinsing to me.
My suggested move doesn't even appears at 5k playouts! My guess is that the elephant eye makes it easy to push through.

That being said, this is the kind of situation where I find it hard to learn from LZ. To me it consider playing elsewhere at L16 because it knows exactly what it can get out of them later. If I tried to do that, I would just give 4 stones to my opponent


Tewari:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O B . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . W B W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If you are contemplating sacrificing the Black stones in the bottom left corner, we can pair the marked stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Except for the aji, this position is roughly equivalent to the previous one. (It is somewhat better for Black, I think.) So sacrificing the Black stones is not like giving four stones. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Knotwilg
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 Post subject: Re: dfan's quest for competence
Post #58 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:17 pm 
Lives in sente

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This in fact was the game-losing move, according to LZ, reducing Black's winning percentage by 20:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B O X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Crazy Stone's winning percentage only decreases by 3% with this move, so maybe it is a little subtle.

As Bill has pointed out, those three Black stones at the bottom are not interesting. I knew that they weren't cutting stones, but I felt somewhat attached to them because I thought that they might give me the ability to catch White in some sort of shortage-of-liberties situation in the future; I also was overly excited about the threat of H3. In fact, the real important stone is White's at J6, which actually is a cutting stone.

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 Post subject: Re: dfan's quest for competence
Post #59 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:50 pm 
Judan

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dfan wrote:
This in fact was the game-losing move, according to LZ, reducing Black's winning percentage by 20:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B O X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


That was my guess. :D

But I am less sure about the right play. I see at least three alternatives. In a game I would probably just play shape.

Quote:
Crazy Stone's winning percentage only decreases by 3% with this move, so maybe it is a little subtle.


Well Crazy Stone is not in Leela Zero's league, right? (Nothing against Crazy Stone. It was a great accomplishment, and is still a good tool. :)) Besides, a 3% difference for Crazy Stone is more significant than a 3% difference for Leela Zero. Wasn't it you who pointed that out?

Quote:
As Bill has pointed out, those three Black stones at the bottom are not interesting. I knew that they weren't cutting stones, but I felt somewhat attached to them


Go Stone Attachment Disorder? ;)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

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 Post subject: Re: dfan's quest for competence
Post #60 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:32 am 
Lives in sente

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Bill Spight wrote:
Quote:
Crazy Stone's winning percentage only decreases by 3% with this move, so maybe it is a little subtle.

Well Crazy Stone is not in Leela Zero's league, right? (Nothing against Crazy Stone. It was a great accomplishment, and is still a good tool. :)) Besides, a 3% difference for Crazy Stone is more significant than a 3% difference for Leela Zero. Wasn't it you who pointed that out?

Indeed! I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't a bad move, just that I feel less bad about making it than I did when I first asked Leela Zero.

I still like using Crazy Stone as a supplementary tool; it estimates the score (roughly), which is nice, and its moves are usually more understandable and natural than the new bots. Of course its moves are also not as strong, but you can't have everything. :)

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