So I was watching the 23rd Female Meijin game today between Suzuki Ayumi 5p and Mukai Chiaki 4p. There was an interesting lower left corner.
$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 6 O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 b 0 . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . 9 1 7 8 . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . 3 . O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 6 O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 b 0 . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . 9 1 7 8 . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . 3 . O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
First B (Mukai Chiaki 4p) makes the kikashi at a but then what does she do? Edit: Don't look at the hidden part cause that's the answer.
$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . 2 . O O X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . 2 . O O X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
After the descent at 1 w tenukies because b is alive. I did not find another way for b to live.
$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 9 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 8 7 . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | 2 X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | 3 5 4 O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | 6 X O b . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 9 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 8 7 . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | 2 X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | 3 5 4 O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | 6 X O b . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
w cant play this sequence because after the throwin at 8 b can just extend to connect at a and w has bad yose aji at b also. A great invasion that was important in securing a 3.5 point victory for black!
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:56 am
by topazg
Thanks, interesting problem.
Thing is, I have no problem reading the life of the group from the position you gave. What I would have a problem with in a game situation, is reading whether is necessary. Not being able to read the fight with and without that cutting point would encourage me not to try to invade at all, but I suspect both of these had read out the entire sequence before was placed on the board.
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:58 am
by plankton
I hope maybe someone will have more trouble with it than you.
Go ahead tho and discuss the moves leading up to this position:
Here is a diagram and what i was thinking as i watched.
$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . 0 . . . . | $$ | . . 8 O O O . X O . X O X . . 4 5 . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X . 6 X 7 . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . 0 . . . . | $$ | . . 8 O O O . X O . X O X . . 4 5 . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X . 6 X 7 . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
In the aftermath of black's attack on the counterpincered d12 stone the position looks difficult for white. Black's 3 calmly secures the right side knowing that it will be hard for white to make too much territory on the bottom. white 4-8 is a strong sequence taking the upper left corner in sente but...
$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X 1 O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . 3 X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . 2 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 4 , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 6 . 5 . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X 1 O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . 3 X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . 2 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 4 , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 6 . 5 . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Black 5 and 7 drop like bombs into the white framework, dashing white's attempts at optimism at 4 and 2(in the previous diagram).
Sometimes i wish that these games were viewable on kgs because then there would be others willing to discuss the game as it was being played.
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:03 am
by topazg
B9's relationship with in the second diagram makes me wonder whether in the first diagram was a mistake through overoptimism, but at pro level I suspect White was aware the limitations of the position and did it any because it was still the best with the local situation that could be done.
and in the second dia are still beautiful
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:21 am
by prokofiev
Here's what I read first as a way to live:
It seems to work (for some of the same reasons the game move worked) but it's surely a worse way to live.
$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 4 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 a . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | 7 . 5 O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | b X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 4 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 a . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | 7 . 5 O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | b X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Now 'a' and 'b' are miai.
Variations:
$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 6 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 4 . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | 5 X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 6 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 4 . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | 5 X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 6 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . 3 2 O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 6 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . 3 2 O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:51 am
by plankton
$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 6 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 4 . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | 5 X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | 6 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 4 . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | 5 X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
great. i had failed to notice that b can play 5 and make connection and 7 miai. Unfortunately it is a bad exchange to play 1 for 2 because it will give w a better yose.
$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$c $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O O O O . O . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O . X O . X O X . . O X . . | $$ | . . X , X . . X O , X O X X O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X X X . X . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . O . . . . X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O O O O O O O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . X O . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | O X O . X X . X X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . X X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 . . O O O . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . X 1 O . . . . O . X . . . O X O X . | $$ | . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Also. b should play 3 at 4 instead for more points or better yet play 1 at 4.(will it die then?)
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:44 am
by prokofiev
plankton wrote:
Unfortunately it is a bad exchange to play 1 for 2 because it will give w a better yose.
Also. b should play 3 at 4 instead for more points or better yet play 1 at 4.(will it die then?)
Thanks. Unfortunately I read out my line that works and then read what you had hidden, which is rather better in terms of points/yose.
I do like your connection threat "after the fact": I hadn't noticed that the connection threat could still be used after 3 is omitted.
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:18 pm
by Alakazam
I thought the life and death in your first post would be very easy for you, since you're 'kgs 2d' no? Seems like Black's solution #2 is to play Kosumi (diagonal) on the first line threatening to connect to an outside group, then go back and play 2-1. 2-1, increasing space in the corner, is the only thinkable move.
Re: interesting l&d from pro game today.
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:36 pm
by plankton
well thanks for your reply even though you seem to be somewhat mistrustful of me.
I did make a mistake in my first post though. it turns out that this is more of a yose problem than a genuine life and death problem.
But there is no correct solution #2. if b had played the wrong move i think w would have won the game.
Also if you would like to participate in the problem answering in the future please hide your post with the hide tags.
is necessary. Not being able to read the fight with and without that cutting point would encourage me not to try to invade at all, but I suspect both of these had read out the entire sequence before 
was placed on the board.
in the second diagram makes me wonder whether 
and 