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 Post subject: Re: Following Iyama Yuta (no world ranking discussions)
Post #401 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:39 am 
Judan

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Re alternative for c12, here is the gist of my plan (p14 was typo for h14):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X X . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . 6 . O X O . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . 3 4 O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . 1 O . . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X O O X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O O X O X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X . O X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X O X . O X . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . O X . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O X O X X X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . X O X O O X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . X O O O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, the fly in the ointment is the m18 weakness which means white doesn't need to take gote at j15. Black 9 only threatens to cut 4 now unimportant stones so white has defend the k16 push-and-cut in sente and can go on the offensive with 10. However, I don't think black's middle stones will die (particularly if white connects in reply to j12 atari with a-b-c next so maybe that will be a ko) as they can run to the left or bottom and white's group isn't alive either. So probably everyone lives (but white living doesn't seem trivial) and the entire area is dame, instead of 20+ point white territory like in the game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . 6 7 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X X 8 X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 9 O O O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 0 . . . O X O . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . 3 4 O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . 1 O . . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a O X X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 b O X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X O O X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O O X O X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X . O X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X O X . O X . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . O X . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O X O X X X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . X O X O O X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . X O O O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Following Iyama Yuta (no world ranking discussions)
Post #402 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:14 am 
Dies in gote

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Uberdude wrote:
Oops, I got confused by the Yike Chinese UI and a long pause! Here's the game:


For some reason, L19/Chrome won't let me download *this* game. It's inline, though, so I just copied it Just in case it happens to someone else.

Take care.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Iyama Yuta (no world ranking discussions)
Post #403 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:42 am 
Judan

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Ferran, assuming you got the http 414 error that's because the eidogo player attempts to download the game content as the parameter of a http GET request, and the L19 server has been configured to have a length limit on that shorter than this sgf file content with all the commentary/variations.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Iyama Yuta (no world ranking discussions)
Post #404 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:18 am 
Dies in gote

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Uberdude wrote:
Ferran, assuming you got the http 414 error that's because the eidogo player attempts to download the game content as the parameter of a http GET request, and the L19 server has been configured to have a length limit on that shorter than this sgf file content with all the commentary/variations.


That... hurts.

Yes, that was the case. Until I tried to reply, I thought the sgf where files, not inline content.

Thanks. Take care

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 Post subject: Re: Following Iyama Yuta (no world ranking discussions)
Post #405 Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:29 am 
Judan

Posts: 5867
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Honinbo game 4 in late middlegame, here's some commentary courtesy of MiniGo which I switch to because LZ misread a critical ladder. (Please excuse ?? encoding problem of prior Chinese commentary)

Update: Iyama closed out the win.



Attachments:
2019 Honinbo 4 minigo review.sgf [48 KiB]
Downloaded 199 times
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 Post subject: Re: Following Iyama Yuta (no world ranking discussions)
Post #406 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:58 pm 
Lives in gote
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Uberdude wrote:
Re alternative for c12, here is the gist of my plan (p14 was typo for h14):

However, the fly in the ointment is the m18 weakness which means white doesn't need to take gote at j15. Black 9 only threatens to cut 4 now unimportant stones so white has defend the k16 push-and-cut in sente and can go on the offensive with 10. However, I don't think black's middle stones will die (particularly if white connects in reply to j12 atari with a-b-c next so maybe that will be a ko) as they can run to the left or bottom and white's group isn't alive either. So probably everyone lives (but white living doesn't seem trivial) and the entire area is dame, instead of 20+ point white territory like in the game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . 6 7 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X X 8 X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X 9 O O O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 0 . . . O X O . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . 3 4 O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . 1 O . . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a O X X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 b O X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X O O X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O O X O X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X . O X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X O X . O X . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . O X . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O X O X X X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . X O X O O X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . X O O O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I assume there's a reason why 7 at 8 is wrong:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . 6 8 X 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X X 7 X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O X O . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . 3 4 O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . 1 O . . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a O X X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 b O X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X O O X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O O X O X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X . O X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X O X . O X . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . O X . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O X O X X X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . X O X O O X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . X O O O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also assume in your variation, capturing the P16 stones with O15 is small.

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