I am around 14k and I played as black in this game. I felt I did ok at the beginning but I am not sure what to do when white starts to frame a huge box on the right starting around move 66. Any guidance would be great. Thanks!
Review request for 14k game
-
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
-
Bill Spight
- Honinbo
- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
- Has thanked: 3651 times
- Been thanked: 3373 times
Re: Review request for 14k game
A couple of brief comments.plants wrote:I am around 14k and I played as black in this game. I felt I did ok at the beginning but I am not sure what to do when white starts to frame a huge box on the right starting around move 66. Any guidance would be great. Thanks!
Old joke:
Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Don't do that.
Surprisingly often, the answer to the question, "What do I do in this situation?" is "Don't get into that situation."
By move 56 White has a good lead. Some of this is the result of Black's small scale, passive play early on, but a large part of it was letting White build a strong wall on the left side. At the least, Black should have pincered
.And at move
Black could have extended to R-11 instead of picking up a few points by connecting on the second line. Black still has an uphill battle, but one that is well within the range of variability at this level.Main focus: Think big.
Good luck!
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Re: Review request for 14k game
In your original post you asked about how to handle White 66. Let's have a look...
There are various points to be made about the play up to 66. I will only repeat Ed's point that
below should have been at 65, which would have been a much bigger problem for Black than what happened in the game. Why would it have been trouble? Because it would have utilized the White stones at the top and along the left side of the board. The potential scale of White's framework at the top would have been larger than what White should be able to get on the right side. So was poor, 
pushing up was good in that it prevented a White play there later.
Next White turned at
. What should Black think about this play? Look at the whole board (not just the lower right) and consider:
1. What should White's goal be in this position before?
2. What should Black's goal be after?
Give it some thought before looking at the rest of my comments.
A little something on Black 69 as well...
There are various points to be made about the play up to 66. I will only repeat Ed's point that
below should have been at 65, which would have been a much bigger problem for Black than what happened in the game. Why would it have been trouble? Because it would have utilized the White stones at the top and along the left side of the board. The potential scale of White's framework at the top would have been larger than what White should be able to get on the right side. So was poor, pushing up was good in that it prevented a White play there later.Next White turned at
. What should Black think about this play? Look at the whole board (not just the lower right) and consider:1. What should White's goal be in this position before
?2. What should Black's goal be after
?Give it some thought before looking at the rest of my comments.
below. This is very painful for White as it starts to erase the center influence of all the marked white stones. If White continues with 
, Black comes right back with the double hane of 
. Black is intent on doing the maximum damage to White's prospects here.Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
Re: Review request for 14k game
Thanks all for the feedback, they are extremely helpful! I will incorporate these in my games and see how they go.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Re: Review request for 14k game
So I just re-read your last comment regarding black 69. You mentioned white 68 is in the "wrong direction" but I don't quite get what you mean by that. Could you explain a little further regarding that? Thanks!ez4u wrote:In your original post you asked about how to handle White 66. Let's have a look...
There are various points to be made about the play up to 66. I will only repeat Ed's point that
Next White turned at
1. What should White's goal be in this position before
2. What should Black's goal be after
Give it some thought before looking at the rest of my comments.
A little something on Black 69 as well...
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Re: Review request for 14k game
When White playsplants wrote:So I just re-read your last comment regarding black 69. You mentioned white 68 is in the "wrong direction" but I don't quite get what you mean by that. Could you explain a little further regarding that? Thanks!ez4u wrote:In your original post you asked about how to handle White 66. Let's have a look...
[Snip...]
A little something on Black 69 as well...
In the game Black answered. Then when White played
, Black answered again with
. This was a very poor play. The reason is that
below (68 in the game), let's assume that Black plays at 
(instead of 3 as in the game), that White continues with 
and Black ignores it to play 
. Now the question is what can White do with the combo of 1 and 3?- Black's stones on the bottom side are much too strong for White to successfully attack. So what other way might White try to use 1 and 3?
- The space to the left is quite narrow and Black's marked stones are also strong here. If White plays something like
, he can make a few points between 3 and 5. However, something like 
will limit what White can gain there while also further reducing White's potential points around the left-side white stones. Also the points that White can make around 1 and 3 are less than the reduction in potential points on the right side by Black playing at 2. Does this make sense? Can you follow my explanation?
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21