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L & D Series from cyberoro (1~4 Dan) problem #7

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:17 pm
by Magicwand
black to play
find best attack on white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1~4 Dan) problem #7

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:08 pm
by Marcus
For some reason, this problem calls to me. Here's my shot at it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


This looks cool.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O b |
$$ | . . . . . . . X S 3 O C 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X S 5 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 a . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


And a and b are miai.

Let's see if I can find a stronger defense:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O a O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 C O b |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


We have miai again to kill.

Any other defenses?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 2 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Back to the same as the previous defense. Guess this is my solution.

Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1~4 Dan) problem #7

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:11 pm
by Kirby
Marcus wrote:For some reason, this problem calls to me. Here's my shot at it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


This looks cool.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O b |
$$ | . . . . . . . X S 3 O C 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X S 5 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 a . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


And a and b are miai.

Let's see if I can find a stronger defense:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O a O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 C O b |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


We have miai again to kill.

Any other defenses?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 2 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Back to the same as the previous defense. Guess this is my solution.


One possibility from your variations - though I haven't solved the problem, yet:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 3 O X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O . 5 6 |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1~4 Dan) problem #7

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:18 pm
by Marcus
Kirby wrote:
Marcus wrote:For some reason, this problem calls to me. Here's my shot at it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


This looks cool.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O b |
$$ | . . . . . . . X S 3 O C 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X S 5 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 a . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


And a and b are miai.

Let's see if I can find a stronger defense:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O a O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 C O b |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 4 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


We have miai again to kill.

Any other defenses?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O 2 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Back to the same as the previous defense. Guess this is my solution.


One possibility from your variations - though I haven't solved the problem, yet:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 3 O X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O . 5 6 |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


I missed that. Black takes the ko first, too ... ah well. I just thought that was a cool spot to hit, and I'd be satisfied if I got this as Black in my own games. Now, to see who brings a better solution. :D

Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1~4 Dan) problem #7

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:36 pm
by Magicwand
this is the best variation black can have.
answer is KO.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X O O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 3 O X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . 1 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O . 5 6 |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]