Playing thick
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:36 am
What does it mean to play thick? I have seen this term while browsing around at go content.
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Let us unpick this and contrast it with what has been offered so far.Atsumi means “thick aji” [1]. This is the topic of this book.
There is a notion that a strong group is what is meant by atsumi, but a weak group can also have atsumi, and this can change according to circumstances [2]. In addition, if even strong atsumi is not used skilfully, the end result will be unsatisfactory.
Strong atsumi exhiibts its effectiveness the earlier it is created in the opening. Moves that make thickness stronger can even be bigger than extensions on the side. [3]
Amateurs are often perplexed about how to use string thickness skilfully, but if the thickness is yours it means you can attack the opponent’s groups severely and build an advantageous position smoothly by punishing him if he has omitted even a single move. [4]
In my case, my lack of response was a consequence of knowing that my answer would be considered wrong by experts.John Fairbairn wrote:The two replies above show we still have a long way to get the Japanese concept of thickness over properly in the west. A bit depressing after so many years. It’s also disappointing that so few people tried to help the OP. I suppose that may be in part a consequence of the increasing redditisation of go talk and the waning of interest in the game for some people in the wake of AlphaGo.
To "play thick" can mean something as simple as "do not make weak groups", basically do not allow the opponent to attack you.GoHavoc13 wrote:What does it mean to play thick? I have seen this term while browsing around at go content.
As you can see by the responses, thick play has its subtleties.GoHavoc13 wrote:What does it mean to play thick? I have seen this term while browsing around at go content.
Well, I was not trying to be pithy.John Fairbairn wrote:I definitely don't agree with RJ's comments (but it is well known we are different plants) and for once I don't agree with Bill's comment that "the basic idea is one of strength." I know where he is coming from, and know he knows what thickness really is, but I disagree with his summary. First, such pithy sayings are only of significant value to people who are already expert in the art (compare: relativity is about time, golf is all in the mind, it's a long lane that as no loaf on the bread - you need to know an awful lot just to know what the pith producer is talking about, otherwise you are just pithing around). Second, I think the word "strong" is misleading. If I was forced to nominate a single word, I'd suggest "solid" could be a safer choice, and if I was allowed a couple more words, I'd suggest you might like to think of thick groups as having a secure centre of gravity.
I browsed the forum, but it was Christmas, or Christmas Eve, or the day after Christmas. In any case, I know I can't do justice to the subject.John Fairbairn wrote:It’s also disappointing that so few people tried to help the OP. I suppose that may be in part a consequence of the increasing redditisation of go talk and the waning of interest in the game for some people in the wake of AlphaGo.
This surprised me. I get that heavy is not thick, but I had always thought that you can be both overconcentrated and thick--it's just that you've put in more stones than are justified by the outcome.Bill Spight wrote:However, a lot of beginners play solid and over concentrated or solid and heavy, neither of which is thick.
As in, "Thick as mud"? Well, maybe, but I always thought, "Thick, good."hyperpape wrote:This surprised me. I get that heavy is not thick, but I had always thought that you can be both overconcentrated and thick--it's just that you've put in more stones than are justified by the outcome.Bill Spight wrote:However, a lot of beginners play solid and over concentrated or solid and heavy, neither of which is thick.
John, if the Nihon Ki-in profile pages (http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp.e.qs.hp.tran ... 00473.html) are to be believed, Ryunosuke is actually the older brother (born 1997 vs 1999 for Toramaru). The prodigious younger sibling does seem to happen a fair bit: Lee Sedol and Judit Polgar come to mind.John Fairbairn wrote:Here is an actual example I've just seen where Black, the younger of the Shibano brothers, says he tried to "play thick and then make repeated punches like [his big brother] Toramaru."