Life In 19x19

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:52 am**

Hi,
i just started playing again since i stopped 2 years ago due to health reasons. This is the first game i consider worth asking a review for.
It would be great if someone looked into it.

The main objective was to make strong groups, use them to attack and figuring out how to make profit from that.
I had this list on my table:
- Where are those large points?
- Am i connected?
- How is my shape? (potential eyespace)
(Can i take sente?)

I would like to know where i'm thinking wrong and therefore included the comments of my own review.
And of course the things i missed completely.

But every comment on the game will be much appreciated.

Thanks for reading!

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:08 pm**

Hi Hrab,

Welcome back.

:b13:

Your move is not small, but I'd also consider Q15 ( or Q16 in your var ).
For your list, you may want to add "Any weak groups ?"
"Do I have any weak groups?", which may help you notice your :b1:

stone.

You let

take a big shared point.
You missed two questions here: "Any weak groups?" and "Big points?"

:b17:

Q14 cross-cut is a local tesuji.
In both your :b17:

vars here, you lost sight of which is the weak group, which stones are important and which stones aren't.
The two M18 :white:

stones are not the focus; your corner group is.
After your Q16 tiger's mouth, and :white:

blocks at P16,
you want to read if you can capture the R14 :white:

stone.

For me, I'd put "Any weak groups" as very high priority.
Two items on your list -- "connected?" and "shape?" --
are to me follow-up questions to "Any weakness ?"

Your comment here, "better attack the keima", is also strange:
it is Black who is under attack here ( because you let W take Q15 first );
Black is not in a position to attack; Black just wants to minimize the damage, and settle the corner stones.

In both :b17:

vars, the

N16 ladder is not right --
you have to take care of your corner group.

:b31:

If you wedge at o17, who wins the capture race ?
Does the N18 :white:

group live or die ?

So far -- :b13:

,

,

-- missed the question "Any weak groups?"

:b33:

Very bad. Let's go through the list again, "Any weak groups?"
If you're not sure about the life-and-death of your corner if W peeps at S18,
then you need to read the corner situation.
( Re: "How's your shape?" )

If you're not sure of your corner's status,
you could've simply connected on :b27:

with N18.
So on :b27:

, you missed these questions:
"Any weak groups", "Am I connected?", and "How's my shape?"

( :b33:

-

) This exchange makes bad shape for Black --
( Re: "How's my shape?" )
If you want to spend a move in the corner,
you'd rather play S18 directly and live 100%.

:b35:

Your corner already alive, so this was bad.
If you still want to add a move here, S18.
( Re: "How's my shape ( eye shape ) ?" )
S18 makes the two eyes very clear.

Recap, up to :b35:

-- the main questions missed:
"Any weakness ?" ( re: Life-and-death, cuts, etc. ) and
"How's my shape?" ( re: basic shapes )

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:23 am**

var:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ ----------------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . X O . X X . . . | $$ . X . . . X O O 1 O O X . . | $$ . . . . , X O X . . , X X . | $$ . . . . . . X X . O O X O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . O | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ ----------------------------- $$ . . . . . . 6 . 7 . . . . . | $$ . . . . 5 4 X O 2 X X . . . | $$ . X . . . X O O 1 O O X . . | $$ . . . . , X O X 3 . , X X . | $$ . . . . . . X X . O O X O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . O | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

If

cuts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm8 $$ ----------------------------- $$ . . . . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ . . . 2 X O . O O X X . . . | $$ . X 6 5 1 X O O X O O X . . | $$ . . . 7 4 X O X X . , X X . | $$ . . . 0 8 3 X X . O O X O . | $$ . . . . . 9 . . . . . O . O | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

If

clamps:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm8 $$ ----------------------------- $$ . . . . 3 . O . X . . . . . | $$ . . 4 1 X O . O O X X . . . | $$ . X 0 5 2 X O O X O O X . . | $$ . . 9 6 8 X O X X . , X X . | $$ . . . . . 7 X X . O O X O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . O | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm18 $$ ----------------------------- $$ . . 2 1 O 3 O . X . . . . . | $$ . . X O X O . O O X X . . . | $$ . X X O X X O O X O O X . . | $$ . 6 O X X X O X X . , X X . | $$ . . 4 5 7 O X X . O O X O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . O | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

W has a ko in the corner,
but B wins the capture race on top:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm25 $$ ----------------------------- $$ . . X O O O O . X . . . . . | $$ . . X O X O . O O X X 3 2 . | $$ . X X O X X O O X O O X 6 5 | $$ . X 1 X X X O X X . , X X 4 | $$ . . X O O O X X . O O X O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . O | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Ladder for :b21:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm21 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X O O O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X O . O O X X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X X O X X O O X O O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . ? O X X X O X X . , X X . | $$ | . . O . . ? ? 1 . . O X X . O O X O . | $$ | . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . O . O | $$ | . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:03 am**

My moves go to 43 - or would if I could make the SGF tags work. Can anyone tell me what is wrong with my file?

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]PW[12341234]PB[jansen_jansen]WR[16k]BR[20k]DT[2018-02-08]CP[online-go.com]PC[OGS: http://online-go.com/game/11594706]RE[W+64.50];B[qc];W[dp];B[pp];W[dc](;B[kd]C[JB: Your 3-3 stone is hard to develop,so this extension is a relatively low priority. This side is theoretically slightly inferior, but probably playable. See variations.](;W[lc]C[JB: A bad move. The 'armpit hit' is often a bad move. See variation];B[kc]C[JB: Good move.];W[ld](;B[gc]C[JB: Too defensive. Your two stones do not need to cower like this, for white's two stones are weaker. See variation.];W[ce]C[JB: White apparently does not know the proverb either.];B[le]C[JB: YES!!!!];W[oc](;B[lb]C[i thought about q16 too, but thought i could take advantage of B not answering the hane at the head more closely -

JB: A strong move locally, but it goes after stones that are already crippled.White could abandon them and get ahead in the fight in the corner. See varitions.](;W[pe];B[qe];W[qf](;B[rf]C[not good, better attack the keima and maybe sacrifice r15
JB: Yes, Q16 was better shape.];W[re];B[qd];W[rg](;B[rd];W[sf];B[ob];W[pc];B[pb];W[oe];B[md];W[mc](;B[me]C[i really don't know why i didn't go through with that ladder i started!];W[mb]C[JB: I'll skip this fight, for Ed has covered it as well or better than I could.];B[kb];W[nc];B[nb];W[ma](;B[qb]C[saving two points at the edge instead of playing a big point or even protecting l15];W[qj](;B[jf]C[is this really urgent?
JB: To answer that, ask yourself what those three stones are worth to you. Do they make territory? Do they make eyes? Do they threaten your opponent?];W[qn];B[nq];W[rp];B[qq];W[on](;B[kp]C[JB: This is too close to your strong stones in the corner. See variations.];W[nj]C[i considered o13 but thought the left side was bigger];B[ck];W[cm];B[ch];W[ef](;B[cq]C[i was afraid that W would get to much of the corner if i just aproached from the right and that at this moment the corner would me more worth than W's wall - i thought about g15 or g14 too, but believed it to be too defensive];W[dq];B[cp];W[do];B[co];W[dn];B[cn];W[dm];B[dr];W[er];B[cr];W[ip];B[eq]C[cut first think later];W[fr];B[fq];W[gr];B[bm]C[i wanted to connect the groups, but didn't read it through];W[bl];B[bn];W[cl];B[bk];W[dk];B[bf]C[i expected W to play a9 asap];W[be];B[eb]C[all of a sudden Whites group looked weak];W[ec];B[fb];W[ci];B[bi];W[cj];B[cb];W[db];B[da];W[cc];B[bb];W[bc];B[fd];W[cf];B[bj];W[bg];B[al];W[kn]C[i decided it was safer to defend here, but attacking/reducing at o13 still lingered in my mind.];B[mo];W[mn];B[ln]C[the goal was to create cutting points];W[lm];B[lo];W[no];B[np];W[po](;B[jq]C[this would've been a good time to use the cutting point i created - this way only strengthend W];W[iq];B[jr];W[ir](;B[rq]C[i was worried again about a few points at the edge/corner - k5 looks good to me];W[qp];B[pq];W[jn];B[ng];W[oh](;B[og]C[wrong direction];W[nf];B[mg];W[mf](;B[lf]C[created a darned cutting point];W[lg];B[ne]C[i don't remember what i was thinking here];W[of](;B[kg]C[i wanted to drive the cutting stone towards the right so that the left center doesn't get "spoiled" - after trying out some variations with m12 i think it's possible to catch it that way];W[lh]C[i decided against pushing from behind, by my alternative wasn't useful either];B[ff];W[ee];B[fe];W[hi];B[eh];W[fg];B[eg];W[gg];B[hf];W[ig];B[bh];W[dg];B[dh];W[ej];B[fi];W[fj];B[cg]C[i couldn't find a way into that big space anymore, so i looked if i could kill that group];W[df];B[ag];W[ab];B[ca];W[ae]C[this i can read out in tsumego, but not in a game, yet - so i just went for the vital point];B[dd];W[ed];B[cd];W[bd](;B[aa]C[that was so stupid - i read this stuff at first glance in a tsumego!];W[ba];B[pd];W[od];B[aa];W[ac];B[jh];W[kh];B[ji];W[jg];B[kf];W[ih];B[hg];W[if];B[ie];W[gf];B[ge];W[hh];B[he];W[gh];B[gi];W[gj];B[di];W[dj];B[hj]C[here i was to tired to read it out properly, so i just tried];W[ij];B[hk];W[ii];B[jj];W[ik];B[hl];W[jl];B[li];W[mh];B[sp];W[ro];B[la];W[na];B[oa];W[af];B[bg];W[fc];B[gb];W[ba];B[nh];W[mi];B[aa];W[pg];B[sd];W[js];B[lr];W[jp];B[ko];W[kr];B[kq];W[jo];B[ks];W[ba];B[ea];W[is];B[se];W[rf];B[so];W[sn];B[es]C[was i sleeping?];W[sq];B[rr];W[sr];B[rs];W[fs];B[ds];W[gn];B[ss];W[sp];B[op];W[oo];B[nd];W[pf];B[fh];W[aa];B[ei];W[];B[]C[jansen_jansen: ty
])(;B[ac]))(;B[lh]))(;B[lg];W[lf];B[kg];W[kf];B[jg];W[ke];B[je]))(;B[mh](;W[nf];B[mf])(;W[nh];B[mg])))(;B[jo]))(;B[km](;W[kl];B[jm])(;W[jm];B[kl])))(;B[fq]))(;B[ck]C[JB: This gets the biggest spot on the board. ])(;B[oj]C[JB: A big defensive move that squashes his impending moyo.
Now, this stone borrows strength from the N15/M15 stones.]))(;B[jq]C[JB: Protecting the three stones is an endgame move. This is much bigger.]))(;B[jp])(;B[cj])(;B[qk])(;B[jf]))(;B[nc]))(;B[od]C[JB: I don't have time to go into all of the variations, but this seems to be the right direction. IOW, don't get trapped in the corner.]))(;B[pd](;W[od];B[md])(;W[re];B[md])))(;W[qd]C[JB: Be thankful that white did not play this stronger move.]))(;B[pd]C[JB: A better move than the one that you played. It prevents white from getting any advantage anywhere from this debacle.
However, it is a tad inefficient...](;W[od])(;W[qb]C[JB:...when white plays the natural slide under to live...];B[rb]C[JB:...and you play the obvious block...](;W[pb]C[JB: This is premature for white.])(;W[od]C[JB: ..then he runs...];B[oe]C[JB:...if you stop him...];W[pc]C[JB: Then you have too many cutting points.]CR[rc][qd][pe])))(;B[pe]C[JB: Leave white with no compensation. Same idea as Q16, but better shape.];W[oe];B[of];W[pd];B[qd]C[JB: This shape is much stronger.]))(;B[le]C[JB: This is a huge move. You should play it automatically.
Indeed, the Japanese have a proverb: "Hane at the head of two stones without looking". The point being that it is so big that you do not need to look for other moves.
https://senseis.xmp.net/?HaneAtTheHeadOfTwoStones]))(;W[mc]C[JB: If white must invade here, this is better style.
Of course, the invasion is premature. There are many bigger moves elsewhere.]))(;B[de]C[JB: In this case the corner approach is probably bigger than a side. ( This is probably a thought that you should save for when you are SDK )])(;B[jp]C[JB: If you are gong to take a side, take this side. It is bigger.
Both of the lower corner stones are oriented outward ( along the side and eventually toward the center ) so this move develops your Q4 stone and inhibits his D4 stone with great efficiency.]))

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:15 am**

I found some parentheses inside comments and replaced them with --s. Still the same problem.

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]PW[12341234]PB[jansen_jansen]WR[16k]BR[20k]DT[2018-02-08]CP[online-go.com]PC[OGS: http://online-go.com/game/11594706]RE[W+64.50];B[qc];W[dp];B[pp];W[dc](;B[kd]C[JB: Your 3-3 stone is hard to develop,so this extension is a relatively low priority. This side is theoretically slightly inferior, but probably playable. See variations.](;W[lc]C[JB: A bad move. The 'armpit hit' is often a bad move. See variation];B[kc]C[JB: Good move.];W[ld](;B[gc]C[JB: Too defensive. Your two stones do not need to cower like this, for white's two stones are weaker. See variation.];W[ce]C[JB: White apparently does not know the proverb either.];B[le]C[JB: YES!!!!];W[oc](;B[lb]C[i thought about q16 too, but thought i could take advantage of B not answering the hane at the head more closely -

JB: A strong move locally, but it goes after stones that are already crippled.White could abandon them and get ahead in the fight in the corner. See varitions.](;W[pe];B[qe];W[qf](;B[rf]C[not good, better attack the keima and maybe sacrifice r15
JB: Yes, Q16 was better shape.];W[re];B[qd];W[rg](;B[rd];W[sf];B[ob];W[pc];B[pb];W[oe];B[md];W[mc](;B[me]C[i really don't know why i didn't go through with that ladder i started!];W[mb]C[JB: I'll skip this fight, for Ed has covered it as well or better than I could.];B[kb];W[nc];B[nb];W[ma](;B[qb]C[saving two points at the edge instead of playing a big point or even protecting l15];W[qj](;B[jf]C[is this really urgent?
JB: To answer that, ask yourself what those three stones are worth to you. Do they make territory? Do they make eyes? Do they threaten your opponent?];W[qn];B[nq];W[rp];B[qq];W[on](;B[kp]C[JB: This is too close to your strong stones in the corner. See variations.];W[nj]C[i considered o13 but thought the left side was bigger];B[ck];W[cm];B[ch];W[ef](;B[cq]C[i was afraid that W would get to much of the corner if i just aproached from the right and that at this moment the corner would me more worth than W's wall - i thought about g15 or g14 too, but believed it to be too defensive];W[dq];B[cp];W[do];B[co];W[dn];B[cn];W[dm];B[dr];W[er];B[cr];W[ip];B[eq]C[cut first think later];W[fr];B[fq];W[gr];B[bm]C[i wanted to connect the groups, but didn't read it through];W[bl];B[bn];W[cl];B[bk];W[dk];B[bf]C[i expected W to play a9 asap];W[be];B[eb]C[all of a sudden Whites group looked weak];W[ec];B[fb];W[ci];B[bi];W[cj];B[cb];W[db];B[da];W[cc];B[bb];W[bc];B[fd];W[cf];B[bj];W[bg];B[al];W[kn]C[i decided it was safer to defend here, but attacking/reducing at o13 still lingered in my mind.];B[mo];W[mn];B[ln]C[the goal was to create cutting points];W[lm];B[lo];W[no];B[np];W[po](;B[jq]C[this would've been a good time to use the cutting point i created - this way only strengthend W];W[iq];B[jr];W[ir](;B[rq]C[i was worried again about a few points at the edge/corner - k5 looks good to me];W[qp];B[pq];W[jn];B[ng];W[oh](;B[og]C[wrong direction];W[nf];B[mg];W[mf](;B[lf]C[created a darned cutting point];W[lg];B[ne]C[i don't remember what i was thinking here];W[of](;B[kg]C[i wanted to drive the cutting stone towards the right so that the left center doesn't get "spoiled" - after trying out some variations with m12 i think it's possible to catch it that way];W[lh]C[i decided against pushing from behind, by my alternative wasn't useful either];B[ff];W[ee];B[fe];W[hi];B[eh];W[fg];B[eg];W[gg];B[hf];W[ig];B[bh];W[dg];B[dh];W[ej];B[fi];W[fj];B[cg]C[i couldn't find a way into that big space anymore, so i looked if i could kill that group];W[df];B[ag];W[ab];B[ca];W[ae]C[this i can read out in tsumego, but not in a game, yet - so i just went for the vital point];B[dd];W[ed];B[cd];W[bd](;B[aa]C[that was so stupid - i read this stuff at first glance in a tsumego!];W[ba];B[pd];W[od];B[aa];W[ac];B[jh];W[kh];B[ji];W[jg];B[kf];W[ih];B[hg];W[if];B[ie];W[gf];B[ge];W[hh];B[he];W[gh];B[gi];W[gj];B[di];W[dj];B[hj]C[here i was to tired to read it out properly, so i just tried];W[ij];B[hk];W[ii];B[jj];W[ik];B[hl];W[jl];B[li];W[mh];B[sp];W[ro];B[la];W[na];B[oa];W[af];B[bg];W[fc];B[gb];W[ba];B[nh];W[mi];B[aa];W[pg];B[sd];W[js];B[lr];W[jp];B[ko];W[kr];B[kq];W[jo];B[ks];W[ba];B[ea];W[is];B[se];W[rf];B[so];W[sn];B[es]C[was i sleeping?];W[sq];B[rr];W[sr];B[rs];W[fs];B[ds];W[gn];B[ss];W[sp];B[op];W[oo];B[nd];W[pf];B[fh];W[aa];B[ei];W[];B[]C[jansen_jansen: ty
])(;B[ac]))(;B[lh]))(;B[lg];W[lf];B[kg];W[kf];B[jg];W[ke];B[je]))(;B[mh](;W[nf];B[mf])(;W[nh];B[mg])))(;B[jo]))(;B[km](;W[kl];B[jm])(;W[jm];B[kl])))(;B[fq]))(;B[ck]C[JB: This gets the biggest spot on the board. ])(;B[oj]C[JB: A big defensive move that squashes his impending moyo.
Now, this stone borrows strength from the N15/M15 stones.]))(;B[jq]C[JB: Protecting the three stones is an endgame move. This is much bigger.]))(;B[jp])(;B[cj])(;B[qk])(;B[jf]))(;B[nc]))(;B[od]C[JB: I don't have time to go into all of the variations, but this seems to be the right direction. IOW, don't get trapped in the corner.]))(;B[pd](;W[od];B[md])(;W[re];B[md])))(;W[qd]C[JB: Be thankful that white did not play this stronger move.]))(;B[pd]C[JB: A better move than the one that you played. It prevents white from getting any advantage anywhere from this debacle.
However, it is a tad inefficient...](;W[od])(;W[qb]C[JB:...when white plays the natural slide under to live...];B[rb]C[JB:...and you play the obvious block...](;W[pb]C[JB: This is premature for white.])(;W[od]C[JB: ..then he runs...];B[oe]C[JB:...if you stop him...];W[pc]C[JB: Then you have too many cutting points.]CR[rc][qd][pe])))(;B[pe]C[JB: Leave white with no compensation. Same idea as Q16, but better shape.];W[oe];B[of];W[pd];B[qd]C[JB: This shape is much stronger.]))(;B[le]C[JB: This is a huge move. You should play it automatically.
Indeed, the Japanese have a proverb: "Hane at the head of two stones without looking". The point being that it is so big that you do not need to look for other moves.
https://senseis.xmp.net/?HaneAtTheHeadOfTwoStones]))(;W[mc]C[JB: If white must invade here, this is better style.
Of course, the invasion is premature. There are many bigger moves elsewhere.]))(;B[de]C[JB: In this case the corner approach is probably bigger than a side. -- This is probably a thought that you should save for when you are SDK.])(;B[jp]C[JB: If you are gong to take a side, take this side. It is bigger.
Both of the lower corner stones are oriented outward -- along the side and eventually toward the center -- so this move develops your Q4 stone and inhibits his D4 stone with great efficiency.]))

Posted: **Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 pm**

EdLee wrote:Welcome back.

Thank you

And many thanks to you and Joaz Banbeck for looking into this game!
I still have some concentration problems and the off-board life intruded my go studies rather rudely the last days. So i didn't manage to work through all of your comments yet.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Can anyone tell me what is wrong with my file?

I'm not sure, it looks like Eidogo mangled it somehow. I just copied the stuff from the sgf tags into a sgf file.

:b13:

at q16, that's driven home now! i even dreamed of it.

One thing in general about the groups there i understand now is that i lost focus during the game and my own analysis. (up to :b35:

) That is a very fundamental thing.

1) Which stones are important for me (and/or my opponent)
(which stones are important for the live of a group)
2) What is (un)conditionally alive and what not

One part of the solution is the ability to read enough to judge the situation. (i practice tsumego every day; no clicking through; mostly L&D; most up to 2 min. - i really like those puzzles

)
Is there another part or does it just boil down to reading in the end?

EdLee wrote:For me, I'd put "Any weak groups" as very high priority.
Two items on your list -- "connected?" and "shape?" --
are to me follow-up questions to "Any weakness ?"

I was trying to break down "any weak groups" into smaller parts, because i'm bad at judging their status. Afaik connection and shape (good connection, potential eyespace) are what makes a group strong. Or am i missing something here?

Continuation follows (still have to work through the q14 cross-cut, the 31 variations and Joaz's comments)

Life In 19x19

playing again - asking for review

playing again - asking for review

Re: playing again - asking for review

Re: playing again - asking for review

Re: