Life In 19x19
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Some 9x9 fiasco's
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15496		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Some 9x9 fiasco's
I hope someone can help me improve my 9x9 play. I don't play 9x9 often and I decided to do so to increase my fighting skills etc.
The result is just dramatic. I hadn't expected to play so poorly on 9x9. I always end up with the weakest groups, smallest territory...

Hoping for some real insight to improve my play because this is just sad.

There was a time factor. 30s for each move. And come to think of it, because I've had some bad experience with clock running out, I think I played within 10 seconds of like 95% of my moves. So that's probably my first big mistake.







This was probably my best game but depending on how you look at it, best game isn't good enough if you have less territory :)




Out of like the 10 games I played in succession, I got one win (well another by time limit)
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
One thing to add: I've downloaded Igowin in an attempt to train my 9x9 skill. I save the games I lose to analyse later. Is this a good idea or is this not the right way to learn 9x9?
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
A few variations. :)
Author:  bayu [ Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
Igowin has its bad habits, but I guess many of us grew up with it. As long you enjoy it, enjoy the ride. It's not to be taken seriously, but will be the first program that will tell you that you reached shodan. I still keep somewhere a screenshot of it:).

Best way to learn proper 9x9 is to sign up at the mobile app Goquest. It's no frills blitz, but it gets you a good variety of opponents (and lets you hide opponent ranks, so you don't panic when matchef up with somebody strong.) and you can go over your games. I also learnt a lot playing correspondence 9x9 on OGS. You might enjoy their title tournaments.

As for your games, most mistakes I saw would also be mistakes on 19x19. So simply keep playing. Your 19x19 will benefit also. One 9x9 specific I d like to mention is the fuseki choice of your "best game". Move 3 is way too slow in my books. But you got away with it. :)
Move 27 was too timid (one advantage of 9x9 is that it is much quicker to count (especially if you count area: depending on komi and ruleset, white needs about 37 to 38 points which is 4 lines and something or the 2nd diagonal and something. So do that. It would have told you, that your choice is too timid.) Sniped by Bill:)
Author:  nasdaq [ Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
igowin was how i learnt go, that and some games on yahoo :) those were the days. :razz:

i think its good to get lots of quick games and learn a lot about life and death and false eyes on the edge of the board. for a beginner.

A week or two of igowin and i moved to kgs and started playing 9x9 or 13x13 there.

Then moved onto 19x19 and was about 15k, and gradually worked my way up to 1k.

'Opening theory made easy' was the book that got me from 15k to 10k.
Author:  Calvin Clark [ Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
A few comments on your first game.



And second game. Please avoid gote descents to the first line that allow your opponent a sente descent.



And other game. I don't have much to say about this. It was calm and you could have stayed ahead.



Overall, I have a feeling that you follow your opponent around too much. Try to find more chances to tenuki.
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
I appreciate your help!
Yeah that descent to first or second line is a problem. Now I always do it because I've had some unpleasant surprises on 19x19 in the past when I didn't follow my opponent to the first line.

It's tough not to follow your opponent around in 9x9, because every stone is so important.


Anyway, I think I'm not improving on 9x9 at all now because I'm a bit frustrated and then I tend to play even faster, even without thinking sometimes, and then of course I lose again and so on and so on.
So I think I'll leave 9x9 as it is for now, maybe do 1 serious game a day or so.

However, maybe one question if someone could answer it:
Igowin estimates my level (I know this is a wrong level, but that matters not) at around 13-15kyu, meaning I play him evenly or sometimes with 2 stones.

--> Do you think this is sufficiant for my level, 18kyu? Meaning, can I just focus on progressing naturally and my fighting/9x9 will improve, too. Or am I really "behind" on fighting?

Because, in all honesty, I don't like 9x9 that much. I know the most important thing in Go (except being a pro) is to have fun, so 19x19 is definitely that for me. But, I am also very eager to learn, even if not every step of the way is fun. So if I have to do 9x9 for a week to improve, I'll do it.
However, if playing 19x19 and doing tsumego and reading books will help me just the same, I'd rather do that ;)
Author:  bayu [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
Ian Butler wrote:
I appreciate your help!
Yeah that descent to first or second line is a problem. Now I always do it because I've had some unpleasant surprises on 19x19 in the past when I didn't follow my opponent to the first line.


Sorting that one out will gain you a stone. Wasting sente like that is a really bad habit, and the situation arises often.


Ian Butler wrote:
--> Do you think this is sufficiant for my level, 18kyu? Meaning, can I just focus on progressing naturally and my fighting/9x9 will improve, too. Or am I really "behind" on fighting?

You're good. Don't worry.

Ian Butler wrote:
However, if playing 19x19 and doing tsumego and reading books will help me just the same, I'd rather do that ;)


Rather do that :)
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
Cool, very relieved to hear that :) thanks!

Then to close this topic, a final 9x9 I played, just today. When you're not under pressure (frmo yourself), you play a bit better. Wouldn't go as far to say it's a great game, but it felt good and managed to get my opponent running out of time ;)



Actually now I see review it, it's a rather dreadful start by me :p but I turned it around, so good enough to leave 9x9 for what it is for now!
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
I infer from context that you are white.

The 'monkey jump' should already be in your arsenal, and the 'nose' tesuji should be joining it soon.
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
Oh, yes, forgot that game was from GoQuest, where I have another nickname :) I am, in fact, white.

Funny thing is, I know the monkey jump, but it would've never occured to me to use it in the context of a 9x9 game. Oddly I hadn't made the connection :)

The nose tesuji is one of the many tesuji I've already encountered in the Tesuji book (elementary series) and I've been able to solve the problems in the book, but not yet found the opportunities in my own games to use it.
That's the hardest part about the tesuji in general to me, to identify its use in my own games.
Author:  dfan [ Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
Ian Butler wrote:
The nose tesuji is one of the many tesuji I've already encountered in the Tesuji book (elementary series) and I've been able to solve the problems in the book, but not yet found the opportunities in my own games to use it.
That's the hardest part about the tesuji in general to me, to identify its use in my own games.

Indeed! I think that anyone who can apply the tesujis of Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 2 in their games with consistency should easily be a single digit kyu. That's one reason I am always advocating for doing simple tesuji/tsumego problems you can actually solve in 30 seconds or less rather than brain-busters. (I'm 3k and have trouble myself applying GGPB3-level tesuji consistently in my own games.)
Author:  Kirgan [ Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
Ian Butler wrote:
Anyway, I think I'm not improving on 9x9 at all now because I'm a bit frustrated and then I tend to play even faster, even without thinking sometimes, and then of course I lose again and so on and so on.


Sometimes a book :study: can help to improve your game :tmbup:

https://forums.online-go.com/t/81-little-lions-an-introduction-to-the-9x9-board-for-advanced-beginners/3138
Author:  Ian Butler [ Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some 9x9 fiasco's
@dfan
Glad to hear you agree to this. Still, we can only study the tesuji more and more and one day master it in all circumstances ;) or not!
But I'm definitely changing my approach to problems/tsumego. I was of the school 'take a tough problem, spend several minutes on it'. Now I still like those, but I'm also thinking 'can't hurt to do a bunch of them in a short time, even if they are a bit below your level.'

@Kirgan
That is awesome! Thanks a lot.
Especially since it combines my two addictions: Go and reading ;)
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