Life In 19x19

I don't know what is bad about my moves, and I am getting tired of trying and failing to understand why I lose some games and win others. It just seems like luck at this point. I am stuck at kgs 5k, and despite an occasional brief foray into 4k, it feels like I have been stuck there forever, and go is becoming less and less enjoyable. Any cure?

I was stuck at 5k for years.

The cure.

play lots of games.
review every one of the games.

play only 4-4 yourself
approach 3-4 only low (is the high approach even joseki?)
enter every wacky corner move at 3-3 (yes it works for all wacky moves)
invade 3-3 early every time it is possible (-> you WILL learn some shinogi techniques this way)

read 3 moves deep all the time (you can read more if you like to, but you have to read 3 moves deep)
dont play any "josekis" but look for a possible tenuki every move
(aka consider the whole board at every move)

dont answer your opponent ever, always look for your own move (perhaps it ends up to be the answer to the opponents move as well

play light
surround
play no fancy moves, only efficient haengma (If you think you have to play a fancy move, look for the haengma again, if there is no honte haengma move, consider if you have to resign)

always look if your group has at least 5 liberties before you play tenuki

always consider nobi if hane is not good enough to hold

never defend

always attack

take everything I said with a grain of salt and report if it works, worked out for me

forgot to mention:
play hane at the head of two stones
when in doubt tenuki
there is death in the hane ( works in both ways )
dont play kyu ataris or kyu sentes
dont play unnecessary moves
never ignore a shoulder hit
never pincer (perhaps your good move is a pincer as well. this is allowed sometimes)
pressing 3-4 corner down > answering an approach to 4-4
never play in the middle of the side in the oppening

dont follow proverbs

greed is the road to defeat
attack to save yourself
discard to gain sente
dont stick to your stones
sacrifice

every move you look at a new board

enjoy go
love go
dont play to win
try to win every game = try to win every move (I loose concentration all the time)
have fun
study go
watch go
read go
think go

play go around the clock

have enough sleep
sleep
sleep

play go and stay aware

Do you review your games?
If you review your game afterwards, do you notice the things which you did wrong?

If you hit a plateau and really want to break through, you have to do some work.

I usually play without thinking to relax when I'm home.

When I go to the club I try to teach the others and to study togheter.

If I go to a tournament I try to study and improve, but I'm usually too lazy to get some results. So I just don't care, to improve or not to improve, that is not the question, just have fun.

Mirco.

What about go do you find enjoyable?

Javaness2 wrote:Do you review your games?
If you review your game afterwards, do you notice the things which you did wrong?

If you hit a plateau and really want to break through, you have to do some work.

I guess I've stopped reviewing my games.

The reason why, is that it felt useless.
Often either by searching, using a tool or being told by a stronger player, I would discover something I did wrong, but since my mistake was beyond my reading ability, I couldn't see how to prevent doing it again. Sometimes I would find a basic mistake and while focusing on not doing that in the next games, would invariably find an even stupider way to lose. I didn't seem to be learning any lessons or concepts that I could apply in a game. I guess I just don't know how review right.

I'm sure you are right about doing some work, but it has been years now at 5k. I have put in a lot of effort at times during this period, but still often don't really know enough about what is going on in a game.

Bill Spight wrote:What about go do you find enjoyable?

To tell the truth, not much atm. A good game for me nowadays is when I don't feel like I hate myself afterwards.

Gomoto wrote:greed is the road to defeat
attack to save yourself

I guess that when I read this sort of thing, I feel a bit inspired, and I do enjoy it when I feel that I have some kind of plan that I can try to implement. My latest was: "Build your own positions first." For a while I was winning a lot following this idea. Then not. Then I started feeling lost again.

You're a long-timer on this forum, so it's hard for me to say anything that hasn't been said before. I would ask whether you think some of the creative ideas you have tried (spaced repetition, visualization exercises) have helped or not. There is also a difference, I think, between 'helped, but the effects were temporary', 'had no effect' and 'made me worse.' The last category, is, IMO, undervalued.

Along those lines, my best attempt at a newer question would be: is there anything that stronger players have told you to do, which you are afraid to do, because whenever you do, it causes you to lose more games?

What's wrong with being 5 kyu kgs ?
It's a very good level. It is mine and I am happy with it.

Maybe it might help if you could find someone to quickly look over a group of games? I’m imagining 5 or so that you think are typical. And rather than a move by move review, the idea would be to look at the broad strokes of the games to see where they think you should focus your effort — direction of play, fuseki issues, shape problems, etc. From what your saying, it sounds like what you really need is some global direction, rather than detailed advice about a single game.

If you are not playing your best, go has no meaning. If you are striving for your best with every move, that activity in itself has meaning.

Especially since you have already tried a lot of things on your own, I am pretty sure that the most effective thing for you right now would be a teacher. This requires time and money, of course. It may even be that you only need a teacher for a little while to get you unstuck and going in the right direction again.

(I personally have had an outstanding experience with AYD, though it requires some real commitment of time and money.)

Often either by searching, using a tool or being told by a stronger player, I would discover something I did wrong, but since my mistake was beyond my reading ability, I couldn't see how to prevent doing it again.

I guarantee that you are making a lot of big mistakes for which the necessary reading is one move deep.

dfan wrote:

Often either by searching, using a tool or being told by a stronger player, I would discover something I did wrong, but since my mistake was beyond my reading ability, I couldn't see how to prevent doing it again.

I guarantee that you are making a lot of big mistakes for which the necessary reading is one move deep.

Worth repeating.

I've stopped reviewing my games. <snip> it felt useless.
<snip> since my mistake was beyond my reading ability,
I couldn't see how to prevent doing it again.

Hi daal, please see PM.

Calvin Clark wrote:You're a long-timer on this forum, so it's hard for me to say anything that hasn't been said before. I would ask whether you think some of the creative ideas you have tried (spaced repetition, visualization exercises) have helped or not. There is also a difference, I think, between 'helped, but the effects were temporary', 'had no effect' and 'made me worse.' The last category, is, IMO, undervalued.

Along those lines, my best attempt at a newer question would be: is there anything that stronger players have told you to do, which you are afraid to do, because whenever you do, it causes you to lose more games?

I have had a number of interesting ideas, the best I think was called "professional advice" but I didn't stick very long with any of them, so I can't really say if they helped much. What I have stuck to is doing tsumegos, and I can say that it feels like it has helped a wee little bit. As to stronger players, I've been playing more with them recently, but except for occasionally saying I play better than my rank, they haven't told me much that I remember about my play.

Pio2001 wrote:What's wrong with being 5 kyu kgs ?
It's a very good level. It is mine and I am happy with it.

I agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with 5k, it's just that after playing for several years at this level, I've gotten tired of it. I'd like to have a better grip on the game, but it eludes me.

BlindGroup wrote:Maybe it might help if you could find someone to quickly look over a group of games? I’m imagining 5 or so that you think are typical. And rather than a move by move review, the idea would be to look at the broad strokes of the games to see where they think you should focus your effort — direction of play, fuseki issues, shape problems, etc. From what your saying, it sounds like what you really need is some global direction, rather than detailed advice about a single game.

Probably a good idea. As it is, I don't have any focus.

dfan wrote:Especially since you have already tried a lot of things on your own, I am pretty sure that the most effective thing for you right now would be a teacher. ...
I guarantee that you are making a lot of big mistakes for which the necessary reading is one move deep.

Also makes a lot of sense.

Kirby wrote:If you are not playing your best, go has no meaning. If you are striving for your best with every move, that activity in itself has meaning.

I feel fairly disappointed at what "my best" happens to be.

I've recently started running 5k races again after several years of limited running.

Last race, two weeks ago, I really tried hard to run as fast as possible. I almost passed out at the finish line. I was seeing dark spots.

But when I was done, it felt great.

My time? Compared to when I was in high school, it was laughable. In high school, I was in the 17 minute range, but for my most recent race, 23:02. That's 5 or 6 minutes for 5k, which is huge.

I'm kind of disappointed with my current level. I'm in much worse shape than in high school, and I feel I could be faster.

But two weeks ago, I gave a lot to that race. I pushed myself way beyond comfort and stretched my current ability. From that perspective, it feels great.

Yeah, my time sucks. But it's not because I didn't give effort. I'm just not there yet physically.

In go, too, I'm out of shape compared to 3 years ago. My go sucks. But I want to focus enough each game so that, even if my go sucks, it's not because of my effort. I want to push my limits.

To me, that's what gives go meaning to me right now.

People are different, so your mileage may vary...