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 Post subject: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #1 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:00 pm 
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I thought I was playing well in the opening, then fell behind after :b25:.



However, as I review this later, perhaps some moves in the opening were too slow. In any case, after :w74:, I thought I would have a great chance to capture a larger part of the center, but did not and allowed my opponent to create huge territory on each side.

Thank you in advance

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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #2 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:21 pm 
Judan
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From moves 1 through 15, both sides played reasonably well. There might be alternatives that would be worth a few more points, but it was good play for kyus.

Let's look at the board after move 15:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c c . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . f . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In the upper right, black is solid. There is not much for white to do. You could play 'a' with the threat of 'b', but black just replies with something around 'b' himself, taking a big corner.

In the lower left, both sides are solid. A move like B3 is an endgame move for you. It doesn't really threaten black.

In the upper left, a play around 'c' is a decent play for both. It is gote for white, but rather big. It is risky for black, because when white gets stronger in the corner, white playing at 'd' can be a problem for black.

In the lower right, there is more room than any other place on the board. The largest gap on the entire board is along the bottom edge, and the second largest gap is on the lower right side. A stone here by either player is big. And if he can play it in sente, that is even better.

As white at move 16, I would have played at 'e'. It gets a loose grip on corner territory, prepares to pincer any black stone that tries to live on the lower side, and prepares a pincer/invasion around 'f'.


This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by: Degan
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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #3 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:39 pm 
Judan
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At move 69, there was a huge opportunity.

The relevant stones are marked with circles.

You saved your stone at O17 in gote. It does offer some tactical aji with plays at 'a' and 'b', but you aren't ready yet because you don't have 'c' or 'd'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . c . . . a X b X O . O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O X X X X W . X O . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O O O O C . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . B . B f . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . e e . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , e . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . B . O O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . O X . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . O X O . O O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But look at the impending moyo on the left side. Black is one move away from grabbing huge chunks of territory. A cap around 'e' is needed. ( Note that some possible 'e's are biased northward to stay away from the stronger southern border of the moyo. )

You have a choice between something in the upper right that will require at least two moves to come to fruition, versus something on the left that requires only one move. That makes it urgent. Even if the two possibilities were the same size, 'e' would be more important.

If a move like 'e' is too bloody for your tastes, at least a play at 'f' does something to stop the black moyo, and it increases white's territory up top. However, it might not be enough to win.


This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by: Degan
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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #4 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:33 am 
Dies with sente

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By the way, what is the status of this group?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ------------+
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . X O . . |
$$ O . X O . . |
$$ . . X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . |
$$ . . X O O . |
$$ . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . |[/go]


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Post #5 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:17 am 
Honinbo
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Hi jlt,
:study: ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------+
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . X O . 2 |
$$ O . X O . . |
$$ . . X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . |
$$ . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #6 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:40 am 
Dies with sente

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Hi Ed, thanks for your answer,

Can Black obtain a seki in gote like this? I tried a number of variations but I probably missed some. If Black cannot, what would be the answer to :b1: ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$-----------
$$ . . . 3 4 . |
$$ . . X O 2 5 |
$$ O . X O . 1 |
$$ . . X . O 7 |
$$ . . . X O . |
$$ . . X O O 6 |
$$ . . . X X . |[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #7 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
From moves 1 through 15, both sides played reasonably well. There might be alternatives that would be worth a few more points, but it was good play for kyus.

...

As white at move 16, I would have played at 'e'. It gets a loose grip on corner territory, prepares to pincer any black stone that tries to live on the lower side, and prepares a pincer/invasion around 'f'.


Thank you. I feel I must have been too focused on the play in the lower right and played there again without thinking enough.

BTW: Do you use a tool for creating the diagrams? Can you direct on how to extract a diagram from a game?

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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #8 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Degan wrote:
BTW: Do you use a tool for creating the diagrams? Can you direct on how to extract a diagram from a game?


Enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #9 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
At move 69, there was a huge opportunity.

The relevant stones are marked with circles.

You saved your stone at O17 in gote. It does offer some tactical aji with plays at 'a' and 'b', but you aren't ready yet because you don't have 'c' or 'd'.

...

You have a choice between something in the upper right that will require at least two moves to come to fruition, versus something on the left that requires only one move. That makes it urgent. Even if the two possibilities were the same size, 'e' would be more important.

If a move like 'e' is too bloody for your tastes, at least a play at 'f' does something to stop the black moyo, and it increases white's territory up top. However, it might not be enough to win.


Thank you. :b75: felt huge. Looking at it again, I clearly needed to play in this area before black could do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Review request: 9k v 10k
Post #10 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:43 pm 
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jlt wrote:
By the way, what is the status of this group?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ------------+
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . X O . . |
$$ O . X O . . |
$$ . . X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . |
$$ . . X O O . |
$$ . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . |[/go]


For me, during the game, it seemed unsettled. Playing it out offline, I suspect that :w58: is an overplay, and would have been safer at S17. Thankfully black did not agree and tenuki'd. I think seki and ko for life are possible.

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Post #11 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:51 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi jlt,
:study: ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------+
$$ . . . 8 . 7 |
$$ . . X O 5 4 |
$$ O . X O 6 1 |
$$ . . X . O 3 |
$$ . . . X O . |
$$ . . X O O 2 |
$$ . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . |[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: jlt
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