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daal wrote:What is the easiest way to determine a rough value of a move in order to compare alternatives.
RobertJasiek wrote:
I do not ask for your motivation to create many wrong decisions caused by the imprecision of roughness...
daal wrote:This is the sort of answer I was hoping for. Two questions: a) When you say "afterplay" do you mean, if your move was not answered and you got to play there again? and b) How would you (or anyone else) count the value of a move at a, b or c?
daal wrote:What is the easiest way to determine a rough value of a move in order to compare alternatives. I am more interested in "ballpark" than "correct."
For starters, how about this: black to play: What are a, b and c worth?
Bill Spight wrote:
Position "a" is a big gote, and the value is around 0, by symmetry. It may be worth a bit for Black, because of the flaws in the White position in the top right. But 0 is a good ball park figure.
Bill wrote:Start with the rough value of positions.
Bill Spight wrote:Position "b" is a Black sente. So go ahead and play the sente out.
Position "c" may be a White sente. Use you judgement.
Position "a" is a big gote, and the value is around 0, by symmetry. It may be worth a bit for Black, because of the flaws in the White position in the top right. But 0 is a good ball park figure.
daal wrote:Sad to say, but I am not even sure what is meant by "sente." How does this sound for a definition to fit my purposes: "a sente move is a move whose followup is bigger than any other move on the board, so it will presumably be answered."Bill wrote:Start with the rough value of positions.
So you mean: imagine black playing there first to the bitter end, compare white and black territory, imagine white playing there first to the bitter end, compare white and black territory. The difference between these two values is the value of the position?
So are you saying that the value of the position is 8? I'll stop here, because I think that that is not what you mean.
daal wrote:I am essentially looking for some way of giving a ballpark number to each of a,b and c so I can compare and plonk a stone down at the biggest ballpark number.
) Maybe that can be done as some visual imagination too?zermelo wrote:daal wrote:I am essentially looking for some way of giving a ballpark number to each of a,b and c so I can compare and plonk a stone down at the biggest ballpark number.
If I understand what you are asking, it sounds impossible. You don't want to do calculations but want to have numbers.
If I try to think what is best one can do without calculations, I would say:
1) Just guess what is sente by your feeling of whether the opponent will answer, and whether you can play elsewhere after that. Maybe you go wrong sometimes, but then maybe your judgement improves with experience.
2) Try to play sente moves at the last moment before it seems, by your guess, that your opponent will play their reverse sente move to prevent it. Better to err on the side of playing too early. Maybe you only lose a ko threat that way.
3) With gote moves, just try estimate what is the difference between you playing there and opponent playing there. Play the biggest moves first, based on where the difference looks the largest.
But if you want to have numbers, I cannot see any other way than visualising the positions after your or the opponents first move, and then counting how many points more or less each player gets.
I wouldn't mind doing this, if there were a list of 10 common positions and their values, but there doesn't seem to be such a list, so I wouldn't know where to start.You said you will not have time to calculate during a game. I guess the usual thing is to calculate examples outside your games, and by that train your intuition to better and better guess the values quickly during a game. It's like with tsumego. The more you do them the better you get at guessing how to kill or live in a fast game.
daal wrote:You said you will not have time to calculate during a game. I guess the usual thing is to calculate examples outside your games, and by that train your intuition to better and better guess the values quickly during a game. It's like with tsumego. The more you do them the better you get at guessing how to kill or live in a fast game. I wouldn't mind doing this, if there were a list of 10 common positions and their values, but there doesn't seem to be such a list, so I wouldn't know where to start.