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 Post subject: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #1 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:13 am 
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I love 19x19- KGS 9k but have plateaued there- so I've decided to just focus on GoQuest 9x9 until I can get to 1dan.

Of course I realise that it's not the same as 19x19, and not even respected as a 'real dan' grade. Nonetheless, I'm currently 1550/2k on GoQuest-9x9, and it just feels like I've a realistic chance of hitting 1d/1700 before too long.

My thinking is that by really maxing out on the 9x9 and improving my fighting, I'll be capable of one day getting better at 19x19.

My approach for 9x9 is tsumego (tsumego pro and flashcards from Mimura's Japanese website); playing on 2 GoQuest accounts (one sober and morning, one evening/junk); memorising pro 9x9 games with a focus on tengen for black; once I get to 1k/1600 I plan to change my black opening etc.

Anyone else please share your thoughts/experiences/opinions/advice on above. Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #2 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:53 am 
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Honestly, it's your hobby, very best of luck :)

I'm curious as to why it's your goal though - why 1d and not 7d for example, if you're already confessing that it doesn't feel like a "real dan"?

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #3 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:57 am 
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I don't use GoQuest, but I've heard that only your Elo rating reflects your strength. Your rank (1 Dan or whatever) doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #4 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:56 am 
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Elo is your real strength and the rank is more of a badge for accomplishing certain goals. For example, I've been over 1700 but to get the 1d achievement you have to be over 1700 while on a four-game win streak, which I haven't accomplished yet. Achievements are still fun even if they don't 100% reflect strength, though.

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I'm curious as to why it's your goal though - why 1d and not 7d for example, if you're already confessing that it doesn't feel like a "real dan"?

1d seems like a more reasonable goal than 7d for someone who is currently 9k. You can always keep going afterwards.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #5 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:07 am 
Judan

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dfan wrote:
1d seems like a more reasonable goal than 7d for someone who is currently 9k. You can always keep going afterwards.


If he's plateaued for 2 years, 7k seems like a more reasonable goal.

In any event, one step at a time. :)

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #6 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:07 am 
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I'm around 1800 on GoQuest, and I have the "2nd dan certificate".

Note that a 1800 rating is close to the top 10%, and the top 1% is a little under 2200

To get the "3 dan certificate", I would need to win 5 times in a row at a 1900+ rating (won't happen anytime soon :lol: )

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #7 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:52 am 
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topazg wrote:
Honestly, it's your hobby, very best of luck :)

I'm curious as to why it's your goal though - why 1d and not 7d for example, if you're already confessing that it doesn't feel like a "real dan"?


Obviously it's my hobby, just as it is yours presumably. This is a Go forum, it's not like I'm broadcasting this on a weighlifting forum... Is this not the place to share goals and seek advice?

And 1d/1700 (even if only 9x9) is a perfectly reasonable goal (it's difficult for me but still seems 'in reach').

If you were to enter my world (bjj, wrestling, mma) looking for advice/encouragement, I'd either be helpful or say nothing. Being condescending just makes you seem like a douche.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #8 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:28 am 
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Kiguchiterrier wrote:
This is a Go forum, it's not like I'm broadcasting this on a weighlifting forum... Is this not the place to share goals and seek advice?

<admin>The Study Journals sub-forum "Create a study plan, track your progress and hold yourself accountable." is probably a better home within this site so I moved this thread there.</admin>

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #9 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:03 am 
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I aimed for 1D on go quest a while back (and got it!). The last couple ranks are surprisingly difficult to gain - it certainly felt like an accomplishment when I got there. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #10 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:39 am 
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Kiguchiterrier wrote:
topazg wrote:
Honestly, it's your hobby, very best of luck :)

I'm curious as to why it's your goal though - why 1d and not 7d for example, if you're already confessing that it doesn't feel like a "real dan"?


Obviously it's my hobby, just as it is yours presumably. This is a Go forum, it's not like I'm broadcasting this on a weighlifting forum... Is this not the place to share goals and seek advice?

And 1d/1700 (even if only 9x9) is a perfectly reasonable goal (it's difficult for me but still seems 'in reach').

If you were to enter my world (bjj, wrestling, mma) looking for advice/encouragement, I'd either be helpful or say nothing. Being condescending just makes you seem like a douche.


I fail to see where topazg is condencending and I think he asked a sound question. I would make sense of you saying I want to get 2 stones stronger because it's a reasonable goal. Sure it's the same rank but it doesn't convey the same idea. Aiming for 1d and then trashing the rank in your post is a little awkward, isn't it? If your objective doesn't feel like an achievement for you, why would you set it as your objective?

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #11 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:53 am 
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explo wrote:
Kiguchiterrier wrote:
topazg wrote:
Honestly, it's your hobby, very best of luck :)

I'm curious as to why it's your goal though - why 1d and not 7d for example, if you're already confessing that it doesn't feel like a "real dan"?


Obviously it's my hobby, just as it is yours presumably. This is a Go forum, it's not like I'm broadcasting this on a weighlifting forum... Is this not the place to share goals and seek advice?

And 1d/1700 (even if only 9x9) is a perfectly reasonable goal (it's difficult for me but still seems 'in reach').

If you were to enter my world (bjj, wrestling, mma) looking for advice/encouragement, I'd either be helpful or say nothing. Being condescending just makes you seem like a douche.


I fail to see where topazg is condencending and I think he asked a sound question. I would make sense of you saying I want to get 2 stones stronger because it's a reasonable goal. Sure it's the same rank but it doesn't convey the same idea. Aiming for 1d and then trashing the rank in your post is a little awkward, isn't it? If your objective doesn't feel like an achievement for you, why would you set it as your objective?



I really don't understand what this means. I'm not 'trashing' any rank- just saying that as much as GoQuest 1d/1700 is very meaningful to me, I realise that it means very little for dan-level 19x19 players.

Maybe to rephrase my point. I love all forms of Go- but given that for many people 19x19 progress can be very slow, maybe it's really worth staying with 9x9 for quite a while... Beyond just the beginner phase.

Thanks everyone else for input.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #12 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:06 am 
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My apologies. I did not read the whole first note. I thought you were aiming at a 9 stone gain in strength. A 2 stone gain is not a bad goal.

Good luck! :)

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #13 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:20 am 
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Kiguchiterrier wrote:
topazg wrote:
Honestly, it's your hobby, very best of luck :)

I'm curious as to why it's your goal though - why 1d and not 7d for example, if you're already confessing that it doesn't feel like a "real dan"?


Obviously it's my hobby, just as it is yours presumably. This is a Go forum, it's not like I'm broadcasting this on a weighlifting forum... Is this not the place to share goals and seek advice?

And 1d/1700 (even if only 9x9) is a perfectly reasonable goal (it's difficult for me but still seems 'in reach').

If you were to enter my world (bjj, wrestling, mma) looking for advice/encouragement, I'd either be helpful or say nothing. Being condescending just makes you seem like a douche.


Wow, I'm a bit speechless. You're calling me names over offering exactly what you asked for in your original post?? You very specifically asked for opinions, and I was curious as to why you picked that goal specifically, as opposed to a closer one, or a further one. If you've just arbitrarily picked a goal of improving by two stones, then great, best of luck. It was simply an honest question as to why you picked that specific rank, and whether it was the attraction to the danhood or the fact you wanted to just increase in strength by set amount ... I'm sorry to offend you over it.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #14 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:49 am 
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Kiguchiterrier wrote:
I'm not 'trashing' any rank- just saying that as much as GoQuest 1d/1700 is very meaningful to me, I realise that it means very little for dan-level 19x19 players.

You said it wasn't a respected dan rank, hence why I said you're trashing it. Why would it mean very little for dan players? Should dan players despise weaker players? topazg and I are white men living in Europe. Should we de facto be racist and misogynist? I fail to see the logic here.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #15 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:05 am 
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topazg wrote:
Kiguchiterrier wrote:
topazg wrote:
Honestly, it's your hobby, very best of luck :)

I'm curious as to why it's your goal though - why 1d and not 7d for example, if you're already confessing that it doesn't feel like a "real dan"?


Obviously it's my hobby, just as it is yours presumably. This is a Go forum, it's not like I'm broadcasting this on a weighlifting forum... Is this not the place to share goals and seek advice?

And 1d/1700 (even if only 9x9) is a perfectly reasonable goal (it's difficult for me but still seems 'in reach').

If you were to enter my world (bjj, wrestling, mma) looking for advice/encouragement, I'd either be helpful or say nothing. Being condescending just makes you seem like a douche.


Wow, I'm a bit speechless. You're calling me names over offering exactly what you asked for in your original post?? You very specifically asked for opinions, and I was curious as to why you picked that goal specifically, as opposed to a closer one, or a further one. If you've just arbitrarily picked a goal of improving by two stones, then great, best of luck. It was simply an honest question as to why you picked that specific rank, and whether it was the attraction to the danhood or the fact you wanted to just increase in strength by set amount ... I'm sorry to offend you over it.


Graham, I don't mean to call you a 'douche' but (and maybe I'm wrong here) 'Honestly, it's your hobby, very best of luck :)' is just a douchey thing to write.

It says: 'oh look at you with your commendable little hobby... how cute.'

Given that 19x19 1dan seems impossibly far off, and since 9x9 dan seems plausibly within sight (however pointless and meaningless a real dan-level like you or whoever might view it), yes, to me it's an attractive goal- something to work towards, something I care about. And all my plebeian little thought-process was doing was this: maybe if I can make it to 1d 9x9, then just maybe one day (without enough study, play, and lessons from stronger players) I'll get better at 19x19.

Apologies if I overreacted- (if someone wanted to make it to black belt in brazilian jiu-jitsu (which is really hard), I'd just give them realistic advice on it, not be like 'don't sweat those gargantuan heights bro, just enjoy your hobby wobby').


Last edited by Kiguchiterrier on Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #16 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:07 am 
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explo wrote:
Kiguchiterrier wrote:
I'm not 'trashing' any rank- just saying that as much as GoQuest 1d/1700 is very meaningful to me, I realise that it means very little for dan-level 19x19 players.

You said it wasn't a respected dan rank, hence why I said you're trashing it. Why would it mean very little for dan players? Should dan players despise weaker players? topazg and I are white men living in Europe. Should we de facto be racist and misogynist? I fail to see the logic here.



Dude, I'm also a white man living in Europe. Quite how you've managed to bring race and gender into this is beyond me but... it's the internet so maybe not so surprising.

(But you've completely misunderstood me- I'm not saying dan players despise anyone; I'm just saying there's a sense in which IGS or KGS 19x19 1dan is 'real dan', and in which GoQuest 9x9 dan is not... I am nowhere near the former, but I am near the latter which, for me, is really cool. I'm just saying I'm under no illusions about it being 'real dan'. Understand?)


Last edited by Kiguchiterrier on Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #17 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:13 am 
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I bet everybody here would be friends if they were chatting in person and could pick up on social cues instead of communicating only through text and trying to find the best way to interpret everyone else's comments so as to maximize offense taken. I encourage everyone to take a deep breath and try to be charitable in your interpretations.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #18 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:18 am 
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dfan wrote:
I bet everybody here would be friends if they were chatting in person and could pick up on social cues instead of communicating only through text and trying to find the best way to interpret everyone else's comments so as to maximize offense taken. I encourage everyone to take a deep breath and try to be charitable in your interpretations.


I think you're completely right. I did overreact (but there's also an unfortunate tendency for the veterans in any scene to talk down to the starry-eyed newbs).

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #19 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:21 am 
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Kiguchiterrier wrote:
(But you've completely misunderstood me- I'm not saying dan players despise anyone; I'm just saying there's a sense in which IGS or KGS 19x19 1dan is 'real dan', and in which GoQuest 9x9 dan is not... I am nowhere near the former, but I am near the latter which, for me, is really cool. I'm just saying I'm under no illusions about it being 'real dan'. Understand?)


This is kind of where I was going with it. IGS 1d is not a "real dan" to me, it's IGS 1d. AGA does not equal BGA (notice I don't say EGF, because there is a noticeable difference in strength IMO between "national go federation" 1 dans across Europe) - KGS 1d is also different, as are Japanese 1d ranks. I consider dan ranks utterly arbitrary, and of course their equivalent strength also shifts over time as the player base shifts over time.

This is all pretty unavoidable, so I suppose my real question was "are you aiming specifically for an arbitrary rank value playing 9x9 on a specific go site, or are you just aiming for an overall increase in strength of about 2 stones" -- advice or comments I would give would likely be different depending on which of those was your actual goal.

Kiguchiterrier wrote:
I think you're completely right. I did overreact (but there's also an unfortunate tendency for the veterans in any scene to talk down to the starry-eyed newbs).


I can promise you I had no intention of talking down to you - I just wasn't clear what your goal actually was (see above).

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #20 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:36 am 
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Kiguchiterrier wrote:
explo wrote:
Kiguchiterrier wrote:
I'm not 'trashing' any rank- just saying that as much as GoQuest 1d/1700 is very meaningful to me, I realise that it means very little for dan-level 19x19 players.

You said it wasn't a respected dan rank, hence why I said you're trashing it. Why would it mean very little for dan players? Should dan players despise weaker players? topazg and I are white men living in Europe. Should we de facto be racist and misogynist? I fail to see the logic here.



Dude, I'm also a white man living in Europe. Quite how you've managed to bring race and gender into this is beyond me but... it's the internet so maybe not so surprising.

(But you've completely misunderstood me- I'm not saying dan players despise anyone; I'm just saying there's a sense in which IGS or KGS 19x19 1dan is 'real dan', and in which GoQuest 9x9 dan is not... I am nowhere near the former, but I am near the latter which, for me, is really cool. I'm just saying I'm under no illusions about it being 'real dan'. Understand?)

I brought race and gender because I thought it would make it easier for you to understand how I understood you. I wasn't angry (looking at what dfan said), more like "what the hell?". You're right that I misunderstood you.
Dont belittle your goal. So what if it's easier than on other server or board size? So what if it would be easy for 19x19 dan player? I sympathize with the efforts fellow players make.


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