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 Post subject: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #1 Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:39 pm 
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Quick question for Mac users. Has anybody updated to Catalina? Does everything bot related (LZ, Lizzie, KataGo) still work? I worry about the deprecated Open CL, so want to check first, before updating the OS.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #2 Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:45 pm 
Judan

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I have not, but a colleague at work did a week or two ago and there was much lamenting of all sorts of things breaking, recompiling libraries pain, more restrictive permissions making things harder, kernel panics and several business days lost just getting back to a working dev environment (python and js).


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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #3 Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
I have not, but a colleague at work did a week or two ago and there was much lamenting of all sorts of things breaking, recompiling libraries pain, more restrictive permissions making things harder, kernel panics and several business days lost just getting back to a working dev environment (python and js).

:shock:

Guess I’ll wait a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #4 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:12 am 
Honinbo

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I have already decided neither to upgrade nor to buy a new computer from Apple. Power corrupts. iQuit.

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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #5 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:43 am 
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I have updated to 10.15 and everything works. There were practically no problems when upgrading.


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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #6 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:27 am 
Honinbo

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Marcel Grünauer wrote:
I have updated to 10.15 and everything works. There were practically no problems when upgrading.


Unfortunately, my last two MacOS upgrades have given me problems, some of which I have not recovered from. And I hear that Catalina promises to break iTunes. Also, not only Apple but other manufacturers purposely remove functionality from upgrades. I remember some 25 years ago installing a new version of Microsoft Windows. Fortunately, I could do so without having to remove my current version of Windows. All I had to do was copy certain files from the C: drive to a newly created E: drive. :) I suppose that I could do a dual boot with different versions of MacOS, but why go through the hassle? Especially since the old version will, in time, become vulnerable.

Edit: Planned obsolescence is nothing new. But computer companies have taken it to a new level. In the future, will 15 year old cars become undrivable because the software is no longer supported and is vulnerable to hacking? The internet of things is even worse, because many of the software providers will go out of business during the lifetime of the things. Not to mention that a household with internet things will have a lot of insecure software on the local network.

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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #7 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:04 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
And I hear that Catalina promises to break iTunes.


Catalina just splits up the bloatware iTunes into various apps, "Music" being one of them. I did not have to reimport anything; it just worked.

Bill Spight wrote:
Also, not only Apple but other manufacturers purposely remove functionality from upgrades. I remember some 25 years ago installing a new version of Microsoft Windows.


Whether or not you upgrade is your choice. If the current version works for you, then simply don't upgrade. I have used an old iMac from 2009 that way up until this year when I decided to replace it with a new one.

Currently OpenCL is important to me, so I won't upgrade macOS to a version that doesn't support it. If there are Core ML backends for Leela Zero and KataGo, I can upgrade again. When the current computer is getting too old, I will probably replace it with a Linux/Windows machine. But that's a few years away.

Anyway, for me the Catalina upgrade was totally painless.


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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #8 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:19 am 
Honinbo

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Hmmm. Would downgrading my MacOS restore lost functionality? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Mac OS Catalina and bots
Post #9 Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
I have already decided neither to upgrade nor to buy a new computer from Apple. Power corrupts. iQuit.

I have a lot of sympathy for this position. Relevant here: https://xkcd.com/2224/


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