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KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:18 pm
by Gomoto
What is the fuzz all about?
KataGo has a strong opinion about this opening. With the marked move white takes the lead with about 3 points early in the opening.
The fighting possibilities are manifold, but white has good perspectives in the battles that will follow.
$$B
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- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:43 am
by Gomoto
Some 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer induced fighting sequences:
(analyzed with this interesting KataGo network: https://blog.janestreet.com/deep-learni ... the-world/)
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:11 am
by Gomoto
And for illustration a pro game with this kind of fighting in a slightly different opening:
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:26 am
by lightvector
So, note that the new network was tested by some people in LZ discord and confirmed to be a bit weaker on normal games, as probably expected. The neural net has only limited capacity, presumably some of that capacity was devoted to understanding igoh120 and lost for being useful in normal games.
You can of course still use it if you want a "second opinion" - probably it will differ relative to the normal 20 block net in some opinion just randomly because it's a different net. New stronger net from fresh should be out within a month though.
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:27 am
by gennan
A while ago, I made a video about that pincer and the shoulder hit counter (using the AlphaGo Master teaching tool and Leele Zero):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rx0mQ7ttks&t=574. That is a different position, so the continuations also differ.
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:43 am
by Gomoto
lightvector, thank you for the heads up. I have already a lot of fun analyzing with this one
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:00 am
by emerus
You might also want to explore
this move. Some weights judge the final positions more favorably than the hane and connect variation(s). If not on a "plain" position, then at least it is considered in other somewhat usual positions.
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:28 am
by Gomoto
Emerus, thanks for the variation. The bots have difficulties to evaluate this interesting position (big score swings between moves). And they seem to have a bit of a blindspot for the best answer from time to time (They recognize it if you present it to them). Perhaps this is a nice test case for the networks.
$$Bc
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- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White to play. What is your next move? (Do you find the best answer? Or an even better one
)
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:40 pm
by Gomoto
reaping the fruit
Re: KataIgo 3-4 low approach, two space high pincer
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:48 pm
by Gomoto
A little bit of study and my emotional state when I am on the receiving end of the two space high pincer has flipped its polarization.
pincer me, pincer me, pincer me!